Ceaser Milan

Dekka

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haha.. Miss Cato, you have no idea what my experience with horses is or isn't. But i have waayyyy more exp in the horse world (from driving to dressage, and a bit of western and draft stuff) than I do in the dog world.

I am done with this thread..I am at school and am getting wierd looks for laughing in the computer lab. But i do like these threads, always entertaining :D
 

Pyxel

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What do you think of Cesar's pit bull Daddy? He seems calm, relaxed and balanced at first sight or is he more suppressed and fearful of doing anything? I'm still learning about dog body language but there seems to be something not right with that dog, if you look beyond the relaxed image at first.
 

adojrts

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What do you think of Cesar's pit bull Daddy? He seems calm, relaxed and balanced at first sight or is he more suppressed and fearful of doing anything? I'm still learning about dog body language but there seems to be something not right with that dog, if you look beyond the relaxed image at first.
I haven't seen many of the shows, but is that the dog he uses alot, light tan pitty?
From what I remember, the dog looks tired and isn't responsive, is always looking down. Kinda reminds of the kid that gets into trouble if they step out of line, so they just try to fade into the background and not make any waves.
But I would have to watch it to make a solid opinion.
 

Pyxel

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Yeah that's the pit bull he has with him a lot. That's about how I see the dog as well, he seems so uninterested and shut down.
 
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What do you think of Cesar's pit bull Daddy? He seems calm, relaxed and balanced at first sight or is he more suppressed and fearful of doing anything? I'm still learning about dog body language but there seems to be something not right with that dog, if you look beyond the relaxed image at first.
So, since you're still learning about canine body language, what, about Daddy, makes you think he might be suppressed and fearful or "not right"? If he SEEMS relaxed and balanced, why do you think he's otherwise?

I haven't seen many of the shows, but is that the dog he uses alot, light tan pitty?
From what I remember, the dog looks tired and isn't responsive, is always looking down. Kinda reminds of the kid that gets into trouble if they step out of line, so they just try to fade into the background and not make any waves.
But I would have to watch it to make a solid opinion.
And you, admittedly not having seen many of his shows, if you remember right, the dog looks tired and you put all this stuff about a kid who's basically abused on the poor dog?

It's amazing, really. Here we have a calm, submissive pit bull, who is at home in any situation, whether it be a kennel full of barking dogs or a room full of people... who can be brought in to help calm other dogs and you find fault with him... Interesting.

He doesn't look "shut down" to me.



 

houndlove

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It could very well be just the situation that Daddy is in in that picture (I see lots of people milling around in the background, it's probably a public appearance, a stressful situation for many dogs regardless of how they're trained), but that is not a happy dog. Ears are way back, submissive grimace in full effect (that is not a smile), big dinner plate eyes--very classic display of stress.
 

Dekka

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Houndlove..you took the words right out of my keyboard. Some people will see a dog with big dinnerplate eyes, ears way back and a low wagging tail and think the dog is "happy"
 

adojrts

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And you, admittedly not having seen many of his shows, if you remember right, the dog looks tired and you put all this stuff about a kid who's basically abused on the poor dog?

He doesn't look "shut down" to me.
Yep thats right, I don't need to watch every show, actually I typically avoid watching it. That is the dog I remember, he is kinda hard to miss and I see a dog that does not look right/left or up.
And I stand by what I said, he appears tired and avoids eye contact etc, he fades in the back ground everytime I have seen the show. Dog appears to be shut down.
Now is that dog like that all the time, doubtful.
If I had (and I have, countless time actually and usually rescues) a dog like that in my classes, we work to NOT shut them down, while still having a well adjusted, well trained dog.
 

Beanie

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Can't see the dog's face in the second photo, but I agree that in that first pic... I don't know that I'd label it shut down - maybe nervous would be the word I'd use - but that's definitely not a happy dog face.
 

Pyxel

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He was owned by the rapper Redman but now belongs to Cesar.

As for why I thought he didn't seem right, I don't quite know, it's just something I picked up on while watching an episode. I know little about canine body language so that is the reason I asked what other more informed people thought of the dog on here so I could then be either told I was wrong and the dog is fine or that he isn't. I actually like the dog a lot and it amazes me how calm he appears to be in many situations.

I was watching another episode the other day where he appeared much more responsive and happy, although there may have been stress signs I didn't realise were actually stress signs, such as the ones in that photo which I would never have known are characteristics of a stressed dog. It would be good if we had a few videos of him to watch closely how he behaves.
 

houndlove

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Someone did point out to me the other day that Daddy is fairly old, so he is going to be a bit on the sedate side just due to his age and size.
 

PWCorgi

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I thought Daddy on CM's shows is owned by Will Smith ?
Like Pyxel said, Daddy used to be owned by Redman.
The little grey shih-tzu named Yoshi belongs to Smith.

That's all the information I have to contribute to this thread, though as usual I am learning so much from the discussions on this forum.

Please continue!
 

Lilavati

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Can't see the dog's face in the second photo, but I agree that in that first pic... I don't know that I'd label it shut down - maybe nervous would be the word I'd use - but that's definitely not a happy dog face.
Nervous would be my word too . . . but, not to defend CM, could it be the situation (it looks crowded) and not the training? Dogs do get nervous in unfamiliar situations.
 
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I got the pictures from here. He is at a signing in a room full of people, so Daddy my have been excited at times. He's also got light colored eyes, which look different than other dog's eyes. My point is that he doesn't look "shut down or suppressed" as is being claimed.

Here are some more pictures... Daddy's dogster page
 
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What do you think of Cesar's pit bull Daddy? He seems calm, relaxed and balanced at first sight or is he more suppressed and fearful of doing anything? I'm still learning about dog body language but there seems to be something not right with that dog, if you look beyond the relaxed image at first.
Pyxel, here's why Daddy looks like a very stressed and anxious dog to me in that pic.

I see a dog with ears laid back, head lowered, eyes wide and brows gathered. The position of his mouth even looks as though his breathing is perhaps stressed, on the verge of a nervous pant. This is a dog who is, I understand, brought out on the set of Ceasar's show with some regularity and is used as an example, so just being around a crowd of people shouldn't be that stressful.

By contrast, the reactions I see from my Kharma - a Fila, a breed that is NOT a social creature and does NOT, by nature, have any desire to be surrounded by strangers and is noted for their aversion to strangers - are ears relaxed or forward, face calm and relaxed, head up, paying attention to everything and scanning without anxiety, worry or fear.
 

RD

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Honestly, I think Daddy has simply learned to avoid Cesar's corrections without worrying himself too much. He doesn't seem overly stressed to me on the show, and I have to say I like that Cesar uses him as his "helper dog" (any good press for Pit Bulls is good IMO) but he's definitely not a confident dog around people. You can tell by his body language that he wants to be friendly to people, but isn't really allowed to be.

FourIsCompany, you do have a good point about light colored eyes. I have a dog with very light eyes and she always looks shocked or terrified if you judge only her eyes. She also naturally carries her tail down or tucked slightly between her legs, and she's a Border Collie with a natural low stance - her head is always carried about level to her shoulders. But she's not abused or afraid... So maybe I'm wrong about Daddy.

Still wouldn't let Cesar Milan touch my dogs with a 10ft pole ;) though I would LOVE to see him go up against Zaphod with that choke chain and "tsssst!", because I know he'd lose.
 

Maxy24

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I don't think you can really judge if the dog is being stressed by the training without the dog being run through commands or something and then watching his body language during that.
 

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