Bullets and burgers.

[Dizzy]

I'm quite surprised there's no thread about this. It's being debated to the hills on the news here.

General consensus seems to be a tragic preventable accident but why in the world does a 9 year old need to play with an uzi a gun that's been banned here since about world war 2 I think....

Brits don't understand US gun culture. And I mean that literally.. We don't have places like that here and everyone is shocked!

(awaits responses about rights to do what people want how they want and about personal responsibility).

 

[release the hounds]

What's to debate? There is hardly a person alive that thinks an automatic weapon should ever be in the hands of a 9 year old. Especially one with such a short barrel and hard to control. I'm just glad it wasn't the girl that was killed, though she'll have her own issues to deal with throughout her life.

Thankfully the overwhelming majority of people aren't this stupid. So if this is a catalyst for debate in the UK to ban guns in the US, how about they start with banning cars. They are much more dangerous to our children.

Oh, and I found at least 6 shooting ranges with a 2 second search in or near London.

 

[RD]

In what I've googled in the past five minutes, uh, there's no reason to put a gun like that in the hands of a little girl who can't control it. I really don't understand the logic behind that so I have no defense for the instructor who didn't step in and suggest something more size-appropriate for her to learn with.

How terribly sad.

 

[sassafras]

Agreed... there's no debate because pretty much everybody agrees it was a stupid, needless accident regardless of their opinions of the larger issue of guns/gun control.

 

[Raegan]

I heard about this on the radio, my thoughts as the story was revealed: "Kids, guns, hunting culture, blah blah, well it's not illega- AN UZI??"

So yeah. I'm not going to engage on the topic of kids with long guns, but AN UZI? REALLY?

 

[crazedACD]

I hadn't heard about this, but I just wanted to say I drove by this place on our trip a few weeks ago! It's literally in the middle of nowhere and I was commenting "Bullets and Burgers? That's weird.". Crazy.

No, a 9 year old should not be handling an uzi.

 

[Dizzy]

I think it's sad for the instructor (obviously) but omg how traumatised will the girl be. I also have NO idea why the video was released?! Any ideas???

 

[Laurelin]

Yeah I haven't seen anyone who thinks it was a good idea to let a 9 year old shoot an uzi.

I have not seen the video- the one on the news cut away before the incident.

 

[MilliesMom]

Unfortunate combination of irresponsible idiot parents combined with an irresponsible idiot "instructor". As a Canadian who doesn't understand the idea of every Americans right to have pretty much any manner of gun around because, well, they can - I'll reserve comment on THAT debate.

But really, we all have a similar interest in laws made that slowly infringe on our rights. THIS is exactly how those laws come into being. "Idiot Laws" that protect average intelligent people from the general idiot population who think that, because it's not written as illegal, it must be ok. You know, because it's not wrong (illegal) it must be right (legal) without taking into account just how incredibly stupid some actions can be. I mean really, who ever thought to actually write a law stating don't let a 9-year old CHILD shoot an Uzi. Sort of like a law of "Don't let a child play Hot Potato with a set bear trap".

 

[Beanie]

The really weird part is they have age and size requirements for handling the different guns and apparently she was well within those requirements??
It is really bizarre and sad.

 

[Psyfalcon]

Well, a full auto Uzi is highly regulated. Thats why tourist gun ranges have them and most people don't.

It is a 9mm, which is a rather low powered cartridge. If they had put one round in at a time, it would have been fine. There is video of that going ok. Even 3, as is apparently standard for teaching adults full auto fire. And just don't stand right where it will recoil to. The professional really did do everything wrong here.

Basically its a range accident/OSHA/ insurance issue rather than any sort of gun control issue. The state might look at any permits they need for operation, and I am sure they will lose their insurance and have to fold.

 

[release the hounds]

It's not really the size of the cartridge for me. It's the fact it was flipped to fully automatic.

I encourage all people to learn about guns at a very young age. I was shooting regularly by age 9. But we started young. We had our toy guns and started with those. We weren't allowed to point them at anybody. we always had to treat them as a real loaded gun. We had to check to see if they were loaded, even though they were just plastic and no real moving parts. basically we had to exhibit all the reflex behaviors of safe gun handling before we were handed a real one.

Then it was bb guns and .22's. and the same rules applied and we learned how to shoot safely. at that age, they should have single shots and bolt action rifles. Not 50 rounds that can go off with the squeeze of a trigger. I wouldn't even hand an adult a fully automatic gun with a full clip.

today you have so many that fear guns so much and kids never see, handle or learn anything about them. Then they get older, take a class and think they have safe handling skills. Then they think it's cool and now take their kids to ranges to shoot the "cool" guns with a pro and none of them seem to know a thing about safe gun handling.

 

[xpaeanx]

It's not really the size of the cartridge for me. It's the fact it was flipped to fully automatic.

I encourage all people to learn about guns at a very young age. I was shooting regularly by age 9. But we started young. We had our toy guns and started with those. We weren't allowed to point them at anybody. we always had to treat them as a real loaded gun. We had to check to see if they were loaded, even though they were just plastic and no real moving parts. basically we had to exhibit all the reflex behaviors of safe gun handling before we were handed a real one.

Then it was bb guns and .22's. and the same rules applied and we learned how to shoot safely. at that age, they should have single shots and bolt action rifles. Not 50 rounds that can go off with the squeeze of a trigger. I wouldn't even hand an adult a fully automatic gun with a full clip.

today you have so many that fear guns so much and kids never see, handle or learn anything about them. Then they get older, take a class and think they have safe handling skills. Then they think it's cool and now take their kids to ranges to shoot the "cool" guns with a pro and none of them seem to know a thing about safe gun handling.

I very much agree with this. I also think it's crazy how some people completely new to guns never even take a safety class!

Also I agree with the "nothing to debate" side. And just to throw it out there....Uzi's aren't legal where I live neither is anything fully automatic or now even anything that can hold more than 10 rounds.... So there is no owning whatever you want just to own it here. We also need a license to even touch a pistol.

 

[Jules]

It's so bizarre. I live in the States now but will never get used to the gun culture. I am fine with hunting for food, but any type of sport shooting just goes beyond me. And I tried. When my husband was an active Marine we went to ranges a few times. I just had the worst time.

People who open carry freak me out. That doesn't make me weak or an easy target, it just means that I like to exclude guns from my personal world. And no, I would not see a need for my child to know how to use a gun.

It's sad for everyone involved. Like always.

 

[Dizzy]

Even the name of the place chills me... Burger and bullets. Do people not appreciate these are weapons designed to kill?

It's so... Acceptable. Imagine a knife place... Stabs and sundaes?! It's like they're just toys.

Not sure I will ever 'get it'.

 

[Dogdragoness]

In what I've googled in the past five minutes, uh, there's no reason to put a gun like that in the hands of a little girl who can't control it. I really don't understand the logic behind that so I have no defense for the instructor who didn't step in and suggest something more size-appropriate for her to learn with.

How terribly sad.

Agreed also, that is a gun that shouldn't be in the hands of MOST people, much less in the hands of a child.

 

[Psyfalcon]

Even the name of the place chills me... Burger and bullets. Do people not appreciate these are weapons designed to kill?

It's so... Acceptable. Imagine a knife place... Stabs and sundaes?! It's like they're just toys.

Not sure I will ever 'get it'.

A stab is an action, or a wound. A bullet is an object.

Its a little tourist trap. They're all over Vegas. Get some food, then shoot some tin cans with a gun not allowed in your state. Yes, they can be used dangerously, which is why there are trained instructors (who in this case would have lived if he didn't make at least 4 mistakes by my count).

I mention cartridge size because some people see "machine gun" and think of some mega- kicking monster. Fired single shot its not actually unreasonable to control. Yes, a .22 would be better. A bolt gun would be better, but if you only put one round in the magazine I can't say its unsafe.

 

[release the hounds]

Even the name of the place chills me... Burger and bullets. Do people not appreciate these are weapons designed to kill?

It's so... Acceptable. Imagine a knife place... Stabs and sundaes?! It's like they're just toys.

Not sure I will ever 'get it'.

I'm sorry you have such a fear of something you don't understand. buy why the need to always comment on Americans and "their guns" and "gun culture" if you don't "get it" It's obviously so dangerous over here that a pregnant woman from another country couldn't possibly be expected to survive travel over here by herself.

and why shouldn't it be "acceptable" It should be more than obvious that millions upon millions live quite peacefully and quietly in the homes of millions of people and their children. How can that be?

it would be more appropriate to name it "steak knives and sundaes" which does sound kind of catchy. People who like a good steak generally like dessert and quirky names.

 

[Laurelin]

I don't see gun ranges in general as any different than an archery range. It's a place to practice or shoot and socialize. My cousin is a competitive archer who is hoping for the next Olympic team. To me tht is the same as alert shooting or target shooting with a gun.

We went to a shooting range in venturing (co Ed Boy Scouts). I think I was 13. I think you had to be 13. It was fun! We shot rifles and shotguns.

And in the industry I'm in skeet shooting and golf are the chosen ways to socialize. I don't go but it all seems very normal to me.

 

[Dogdragoness]

I am all for kids learning about guns and gun safety, how to use one etc ... as long as it's in a safe, structured environment by an experienced, licensed instructor and if they are old enough etc ...

Kids shouldn't be left to their own devices with a dangerous weapon, but they should 5 be brought up to fear it either.

Also like it or not, here we have a constitution with a second amendment that gives us the right to bear arms.