Border Jacks and Border Staffys

milos_mommy

Active Member
Joined
Oct 14, 2006
Messages
15,349
Likes
0
Points
36
#1
I don't think we have any on here? Gusto....and I think Elegy had plans for a pup, but I don't think she posts anymore? Anyway, I've never met either of these crosses, and was wondering if I could get some info on them.

My first reaction to border jack is "WHY WOULD YOU DO THAT" lol, but I imagine they're drivey and smart as hell. Do they have JRT aggression tendencies and typical BC neuroticism/reactivity?

Border staffy seems a little more sensible to me. Staffy's come with some of the terrier tenacity but seem to lack the psycho factor and intense prey/DA drive that some other terriers have. I don't see how much an improvement for "height dogs" they are, as I've only met a few staffy's shorter than the majority of smaller-sized BCs I know. Do they have more BC personalities, staffy personalities, or is it hit-or-miss or dependent on breeder?

I don't know, my first thought when hearing about these crosses is not-a-house-pet, which I guess is their point. But I'm wondering if, especially with a border staffy, they're kind of a meet-in-the-middle potential weekend warrior for flyball/agility/sports. I'm....just not really a BC person, I guess, but I AM a staffy/terrier person and I would eventually like to participate more seriously in sports, some time in the future...but for now it's just a for-fun hobby, and I'd want a dog to primarily be a family dog/house pet.
 

BostonBanker

Active Member
Joined
Jun 2, 2006
Messages
8,854
Likes
0
Points
36
Location
Vermont
#2
Not a meet in the middle at all from the ones I've known. I think they are lovely, and I've spent time very tempted (and yes, Gusto was, in theory, a "border staffy" when I got him - he's not).

I have a friend who has a youngish one now, and he is absolutely fabulous and way, way more dog than I would ever want as a very active agility participant. I can't imagine he would do well as a weekend warrior dog. She's a fabulous trainer who has had at least one other sport mix (border stack, I think), so it isn't like she got in over her head and doesn't know what she is doing.

There used to be a very cool borderjack that did some agility around here - he was mostly a flyball dog. The woman also had/has Mals that she did sports with, and when my friend and I went to chat about the borderjack, she was very firm that he was more dog than either of her Mals.

One of the trainers I work with when I can has a border staffy that looks a lot like Gusto, but who she described as "Gusto on Meth". From my understanding, her drive and intensity often overwhelm her sense of self preservation, and she's had some soundness issues as a result.

I have zero issue with them being bred for sports, and placed appropriately. There have been some I've really adored (and I love the one my friend has now - he's one of the most attractive dogs I've ever seen among other fine traits), but I can't imagine trying to handle one in sports, especially not for a new handler or someone who wants to be able to dabble.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Dec 3, 2013
Messages
139
Likes
0
Points
0
Location
The Bay Area
#5
My first reaction to border jack is "WHY WOULD YOU DO THAT" lol, but I imagine they're drivey and smart as hell. Do they have JRT aggression tendencies and typical BC neuroticism/reactivity?
Well…it depends. It really depends on the parents and, to some extent, the grandparents.

The ones I have spent time with do have terrier spunkiness. I haven’t seen the bad side of the BC come out as much in the BorderJacks. They tend to be tough little cookies, not hothouse violets.

For me, I’d only be interested in a BorderJack from a nice Jack and a stable BC. Because we’re dealing with a general type, rather than a breed – you in theory could get the worst of both worlds.

I have had good friends say that a good BorderJack is hard to fine. That they can be dicks to other dogs and really hard headed.


I don't see how much an improvement for "height dogs" they are, as I've only met a few staffy's shorter than the majority of smaller-sized BCs I know.
I want to clarify that we’re talking about Staffordshire Bull Terriers, not American Staffordshire Terriers. My girl’s mom is something like 14.5 inches tall. If you have a BC that size – something is wrong with it. :)

Mine is just over 16 inches tall. She sets a 9 inch jump in U-Fli. She is 18 in USDAA and will be 16 in AKC if we do AKC. We are not planning on doing NAFA.

Now I am seeing BS that look HUGE and are jumping 22s in USDAA. But it's easy enough to see what previous litters have thrown in these cases.

Do they have more BC personalities, staffy personalities, or is it hit-or-miss or dependent on breeder?
Again, it depends. Not just on the breeder but really on the sire/dam and on the individual dog. You have to be prepared to have anything along the spectrum. Mine is very BC-ish in certain things. For example, she will outrun on our other dogs and down herself. She also got her loud mouth-ness from her BC dad. That girl has a lot of say. But her insane focus on work and the task at hand is totally her mama.

I don't know, my first thought when hearing about these crosses is not-a-house-pet, which I guess is their point. But I'm wondering if, especially with a border staffy, they're kind of a meet-in-the-middle potential weekend warrior for flyball/agility/sports. I'm....just not really a BC person, I guess, but I AM a staffy/terrier person and I would eventually like to participate more seriously in sports, some time in the future...but for now it's just a for-fun hobby, and I'd want a dog to primarily be a family dog/house pet.
We were also a terrier/bully breed household but I did know a ton of performance mixes and had wanted a BS for a long, long time. I wanted the fierce, pushy girl and I got it and her household off-switch is still very much a work in progress. Some of her siblings are not as “much†dog as she is. But many of my friends who have BS have dogs that sleep 99.9% of the time if nothing cool is happening.

We do typically do something every day. Could be class or it could be a couple of sessions of contacts and weave poles in the backyard. Sometimes when our life is busy she gets a big raw bone for dinner and goes into her crate.

She’s also a ton of fun. There is so much TRY in her. Teaching her a new trick is super fun because she likes learning and doing. I have never (knock on wood) seen her shut down. The mistakes she is making are baby dog mistakes and things that are new to her.

This is our Ferrari dog.

However, there are litters out there where one or two of the pups are not Ferraris. They are Mini Coopers. Super fun to drive fast and corner sometimes but also totally decent to use for errands around town.

They are out there if you ask. My girl’s litter had a softer puppy that wasn’t as balls to the walls as she was. But her family sound very happy with her.
 

Ozfozz

Highbread Dingbat
Joined
Jan 21, 2014
Messages
1,329
Likes
3
Points
38
Location
Ontario
#6
Best guess is that my Ruby SoHo is a Border/Jack. Though from the ones I have met through sports and performance events, she's not what I'd call your typical BorderJack.

She's got the drive of a terrier with that terrier scream, but she also shuts down over nest to nothing. Border Collie softness with terrier tenacity makes for an odd combination. I haven't worked too much with her since she's my family's dog more than mine.


Now the ones I have met through events have a little more consistent with what you'd think. Small, feisty little dogs. Lots of drive and lots of speed. Not the quietest, nor the most dog-friendly, but great for flyball and excel at disc freestyle.
 

Laurelin

I'm All Ears
Joined
Nov 2, 2006
Messages
30,963
Likes
3
Points
0
Age
32
Location
Oklahoma
#7
EDIT: Talking about borderstaffies here. Not around borderjacks at all really.

I love them. I've contemplated one as my next dog although I'm not thrilled with the breeder prospects. I've recently found a couple breeders I'm ok with though so it's rekindled the flame.

I know a few, most from the same breeder though a few I don't know where they came from. I love them much for the same reasons I love Hank. Lots of drive and tenacity but also a little 'harder' temperament and less quirky than a BC IMO. And in a nice compact package. Hank is not as much dog as most the BS I've seen but he seems to have a similar *type* of energy and drive... pretty different from a straight up herder but still has an edge? Idk how to explain it. The ones I know are a lot of dog- screaming little bundles of muscle and athleticism. I like the prospect of getting something Hank-like but a bit more oomph and bred with structure in mind. They are very moderate structured little dogs too, which appeals.

The ones I know belong to pretty 'serious' agility people and flyball people. They're definitely not any lower key or drive than a border collie. One I am thinking of... he is... something else. I ADORE him but my BC friends have mentioned they could not ever imagine living with him. He is definitely amongst the most 'dog' of any dog I can think of.

They are all smaller than the average BC. They usually use small staffy bulls. I have seen videos of some that are BC sized but the ones around here are all smaller than BCs. Probably 16ish inches.
 

Laurelin

I'm All Ears
Joined
Nov 2, 2006
Messages
30,963
Likes
3
Points
0
Age
32
Location
Oklahoma
#8
Also this is probably obvious but there's a lot of plain terrier breeds out there doing well in lots of sports- jacks, rats, staffies, etc. so no reason you couldn't stick to terriers and be involved in dog sports.
 

BostonBanker

Active Member
Joined
Jun 2, 2006
Messages
8,854
Likes
0
Points
36
Location
Vermont
#9
The one I know that is actively competing does run 22" in USDAA, so he's 18" or over. Not a ton over; I'd guess he's between 18 - 19"? He certainly has no issues jumping 22"!
 

SaraB

New Member
Joined
Mar 31, 2011
Messages
5,798
Likes
0
Points
0
Location
St. Louis, MO
#11
I have a borderstaffy, Taboo. She has the border collie traits but with the staffy intensity. Everything she does is at 110%, 100mph. That includes going from playing to fighting unfortunately. She is extremely talented, a joy to work with and excels at everything I throw at her. Only downfall is that I have to constantly monitor her play with other dogs and she has some weird quirky habits with guests.
 
Joined
Dec 3, 2013
Messages
139
Likes
0
Points
0
Location
The Bay Area
#12
EDIT: Talking about borderstaffies here. Not around borderjacks at all really.

I love them. I've contemplated one as my next dog although I'm not thrilled with the breeder prospects. I've recently found a couple breeders I'm ok with though so it's rekindled the flame.
One of the hard things to deal with is how hard it can be to find out about BS litter, especially if you don't have a ton of flyball playing friends.

Because for the most part, it's just one breeder that has a number of litters every year and has an active website.

Everyone else is having private litters and/or doesn't breed that often. Like Gnome's breeder is pondering breeding her half brother (on the BC side) for a BS litter in a year. And that's it for BS litter for the foreseeable future from her.

When the Borderjack list I was on didn't take, I sent an email to two good friends who know *everyone* and they pointed me in the direction of a couple of litters that I didn't even know were happening because the people were just quietly doing them.
 

Laurelin

I'm All Ears
Joined
Nov 2, 2006
Messages
30,963
Likes
3
Points
0
Age
32
Location
Oklahoma
#13
Yeah I don't flyball so that's a problem. I'm still on a flyball list so I hear about some litters of sport mixes but so far just sight hound types.

I've got a while though. And it's likely I will get a border collie.
 

meepitsmeagan

Meagan & The Cattle Dog Crew
Joined
Jun 21, 2012
Messages
3,378
Likes
1
Points
38
Location
Michigan
#14
I know a BS and she is amazing. Very stable, super drivey and intense, and just all around awesome.
 

milos_mommy

Active Member
Joined
Oct 14, 2006
Messages
15,349
Likes
0
Points
36
#15
I guess an inch or two can make a big difference in sports! I know staffy standard is something like 14"-18" inches, but I've only known one on the small end of that. Most of them are around 16"-18", and the majority of border collies I know (especially in sports) are only slightly larger, around 18"-20"....but I might just think that because they're always slinking/crouching down, I have no idea what height group they run in.
 

Laurelin

I'm All Ears
Joined
Nov 2, 2006
Messages
30,963
Likes
3
Points
0
Age
32
Location
Oklahoma
#16
There aren't too many BCs running 16" or lower here in USDAA. Most are in the 18" jump height so if you can get ower than that, it's helpful. But the real reason they want to lower heights is in flyball. Flyball has a weird way to measure though.
 
Joined
Dec 3, 2013
Messages
139
Likes
0
Points
0
Location
The Bay Area
#17
I guess an inch or two can make a big difference in sports! I know staffy standard is something like 14"-18" inches, but I've only known one on the small end of that. Most of them are around 16"-18", and the majority of border collies I know (especially in sports) are only slightly larger, around 18"-20"....but I might just think that because they're always slinking/crouching down, I have no idea what height group they run in.
The AKC and UKC standards are 14-16" tall for SBTs.

For BCs it gets complicated b/c of the whole ABCA/AKC split but **** some folks are breeding tiny little BCs. Because if you see one in USDAA 18s - they had to wicket under 17.5 inches tall.
 

BostonBanker

Active Member
Joined
Jun 2, 2006
Messages
8,854
Likes
0
Points
36
Location
Vermont
#19
There is one 16" BC in our region, but I'm not sure she's purebred. She's listed as BC, but it may be an ILP sort of deal. I'd guess she's BC/Sheltie.

And our 18" division is super small as well. Most of the border collies are running 22", with what seems to be a huge focus lately on getting the tallest border collies possible, with a lot of big boys in the 26" class. I'm not sure if it is an actual focus on height, or just the tendency of the lines that are popular in the area to be big.
 

Members online

No members online now.
Top