Anyone Want Tiki and Squid??

[Squidbert]

They're both driving me INSANE!

Every day I come home and Tiki and pooed and/or peed on the floor.. even today when she was outside a half an hour earlier.. just before Steve went to work.. a HALF HOUR! She was only here a half hour alone and she felt the need to poo AND pee!!!!!

Squid's been peeing randomly.. not when he's home alone.. when we're here.. and there's not even any warning.. no whining.. no circling.. no sniffing.. he'll just be wandering about being himself then all of a sudden there's pee squirting out of him!! He peed on the bed the other night.. this morning I got up and walked down the stairs with him to let him out to pee and just before he got to the door he started peeing!

All I've been doing this past week and a half is cleaning up poo and pee.. I'm so tired of it! The carpets are gross.. they're big dogs so when they pee they REALLY pee.. sigh..

AND it's been raining for over a week here.. so there's mud everywhere.. GACK! I just really don't want to be a dog owner right now.. I'm so freaking sick of all this.. I feel like I'm such a failure.. I assume it's because I'm working now.. but even still they aren't home all day alone.. me and steve usually have opposite shifts so most days they're only here a couple hours alone..

Squids also being a complete brat.. and NOTHING is working! He wants me to play fetch with him and he'll run up, drop the ball and bark if I don't throw it right away.. if I still don't do anything he'll keep up the barking.. I've tried ignoring him.. yelling no.. spraying him.. nothing is working... I'm really starting to feel I'm not cut out for this at all.. If I don't let him do what he wants whenever he wants he barks at me.. repeatedly.. It's really getting to me.. I'm in tears writing this.. I just feel so useless.. I feel like I'm just going to burst or something.. I dread coming home now.. GOD! He's doing it right now! He wanted up in my lap I said no.. and he's barking at me!!!

Please help!

 

[Renee750il]

Sounds like they are showing you their displeasure with your new schedule! Gonna move this to the training forum where it will get the right looks. Sounds like you could use some help

 

[Gempress]

To me, it sounds like Tiki has some seperation anxiety. Especially if this only happens when you're gone. There's a lot of good information available on seperation anxiety: just search the forum.

As for Squid, he's still a pup. Maybe Tiki's indoor mistakes are confusing Squid about his housebreaking? That's the best I can come up with. I'd treat Squid like he's an untrained pup all over again. Basically a housebreaking refresher course.

Hang in there. (((hugs))) It will get better. Everybody goes through rough times like this.

 

[Squidbert]

Thanks Renee!

Displeasure indeed!

I love them so much.. it kills me when stuff like this happens.. I just can't enjoy them the same.. you know? I feel like they hate me.. sigh..

Has anyone else gone through problems like this? Please..?? Anyone? I need to know this can get better.. relatively soon hopefully..

 

[Gempress]

Zeus went through some seperation anxiety after we got Voodoo. He peed/pooped whenever we left him alone. It got so bad that we couldn't even go into the master bedroom and close the door without Zeus peeing on the floor. I was so upset. Zeus was always my "perfect" dog, and it distressed me to see him suddenly develop a behavioral issue.

My husband finally sat down and had a "man-to-man" talk with Zeus, and the seperation anxiety vanished. I have no clue what happened with that one. *shrug*

But yes, things do get better.

 

[Squidbert]

Thanks Gemp! Can I borrow your husband for a day?

Tiki has always been so good.. I worked before and she was fine staying at home for even 8 hours.. I give her a Kong and chews.. raw bones.. stuff to do.. and she's really scared of being in crates or even rooms closed in.. one time we left her at home and somehow the door of our bedroom must have blown closed.. and when we got home she had the carpet torn up and was panting and clearly distressed..
I've been thinking of trying to find some way to confine her to the kitchen.. there aren't any doors so I'm thinking maybe she'll be ok with just gates there?
And sometimes Squid even goes out.. pees.. then comes in and pees again within minutes! ARGH! DOGS!!!!!

 

[rij73]

Let me share this link:
http://www.mysmartpuppy.com/ask-us/articles/you-are-grounded.html

These people's books have helped me a lot. They say that following the rules on that page can help a dog with just about ANY behavior issue. They need to know you're in charge, you're their friend, and that the rules are unbendable. Maybe it will help some???

 

[Herschel]

I threatened to sell Herschel on Ebay several times:

-We crate trained him so we didn't have that many accidents. However, as we were just discussing this morning, when he was just getting the hang of things he would push his limits. One time, I was sitting in my chair and he walks over, makes eye contact with me, and starts peeing. This was about 3 minutes after I asked him if he wanted to go out and he didn't respond at all (he knew the command).

That's fine, all in all, he was house trained fairly easily.

When he was very young, we were keeping him gated in to the kitchen. He was fine with that until he was about three months old. Then he decided he had to get out. I tried everything to get him to stay in--reinforcing the gate, using weights, boxes, and even a mop to create an amazing pulley system. Nothing worked.

So I used oak plywood and built a hinged door. It worked fabulously for 1 day. Then my girlfriend left the door open (not fastened to its bolt/support) and the little hinge couldn't hold the door so a substantial chunk of the wall came off when the door came crashing down.

We decided that we would just give Herschel a little bit more room. He was fine some days, but other days he was such a terrorist. All 4 legs of my couch have scratch marks on them because his toys would get stuck under the couch so he figured he would chop it down or something.

This was all fine--he is a puppy, I tried to take it in stride.

Then the real terrorist surfaced:
By this point, he was fully house trained so we decided we would give him free reign of the living room while we were gone. Once again, some days he was great, others he went bazerk.

-He took shoes off the shoe rack, carried them upstairs, and in some cases, destroyed them. (That's OK, shoes are replaceable)

-He knocked my paper bin over and shredded everything. (That's fine, easily fixed with a vacuum)

-Then he decided that he would rip the carpet out. This "phase" lasted about a month and a half. First, it would be on the edges--he would just pull the threads out.

-After the edges got boring, he decided to rip holes in the carpet in the middle of the floor. We would come home to find carpet threads all over the place, a hole in the floor, and threads stuck in his teeth.

-Around the same time, he started teething. Not on the Nylabones that we gave him--but on the drywall. I have plastered every corner of drywall in the living room because at some point he has decided to gnaw on it.

-In one spot, he carved an orange sized hole in the wall. Maybe out of separation anxiety, maybe out of boredom.

-He shattered a glass milk bottle, a terra cotta pot, and dragged a plant inside and dismembered it and its roots. Soil all over the floor.

-A few days later, he continued his plant obsession and dragged a woven basket into the house, destroyed it, and ripped the plant to shreds.

-And now, finally, other than the occasional carpet ripping he is well-behaved. There were days were I definitely considered posting "DOG FOR SALE" on Ebay, but I don't love him any less for any of this. It was incredible frustrating, but hey--what good would dogs be if they weren't a challenge?

Good luck!

 

[Renee750il]

Zeus went through some seperation anxiety after we got Voodoo. He peed/pooped whenever we left him alone. It got so bad that we couldn't even go into the master bedroom and close the door without Zeus peeing on the floor. I was so upset. Zeus was always my "perfect" dog, and it distressed me to see him suddenly develop a behavioral issue.

My husband finally sat down and had a "man-to-man" talk with Zeus, and the seperation anxiety vanished. I have no clue what happened with that one. *shrug*

But yes, things do get better.

Heheh . . . yup, Gem - those little nose-to-snout talks can work wonders. Saved me endless hours of frustration! I know everyone thought I was nuts, but Grammy, EliN, Barb, Zoom and Debi have seen Kharma and how she behaves

 

[Doberluv]

How old are these dogs again? Did you use a crate or x pen for potty training? You'll just have to do like you do when you have a brand new puppy....square one, never taking your eyes off of them when they're loose in the house. They need to be confined in a small area when you can't watch them. Take them out more frequently and reward lavishly when they go outside. Prevent accidents and clean the old ones with Nature's Miracle. Do you have a carpet shampooer? That was my best investment.

He wants me to play fetch with him and he'll run up, drop the ball and bark if I don't throw it right away.. if I still don't do anything he'll keep up the barking.. I've tried ignoring him.. yelling no.. spraying him.. nothing is working...

Your dog trained you. First he barked, you threw the ball. He learned that barking makes you throw the ball. Then you stopped throwing it and you gave him some other kinds of attention, yelling, spraying...things that don't teach anything. You say you tried to ignore it. Then what did you do after he barked and barked and barked? Did you finally give in and throw it? Even once? How learning behavior works is: When he always got a payoff (reinforcement) for his barking...ie: you threw the ball. And then he got it sometimes, but not all the time, he learned that if he barks for a long time, there's a good chance that you might throw it. So that behavior strengthened. Even if you ignored him for a couple of weeks, he will continue to try because it worked before, even if it only worked sometimes. You must ignore it religiously and continually for weeks.

He needs some more structure. Give him some alternative behavior outlets. More obedience, something where he needs to use his brain. More hard exercise, depending on age and breed. Put the dogs in an x pen or crate when you need to take a shower or be on the phone. Otherwise, you need to supervise them more carefully. It is definitely work....like having toddlers in the house. But it will pay off in the end.

I'd not let them sleep on the bed until they are housebroken. Soft things like blankets and carpet are "nice" places to go potty. They absorb.

Punishment for accidents is counter productive and causes some backfiring. Get those dogs out more frequently and make a big fuss and give a treat when they go outside.

More structure, less free time for now.

Things will get better. Stay calm, take a deep breath.

 

[Squidbert]

Thanks for the link Hudsons mom.. I'll check that out

Thanks for all the help everyone!
And Doberluv I NEVER throw the ball after he barks.. never have.. I only play with him when he's being obedient.. if he barks I ignore him or say no.. make him sit quiet for a little bit then continue playing.. but still he comes back, drops the ball and barks.. little snot! Thanks for the advice! I'll definitely do what you said.. So frustrating having to start all over.. we've come so far already and now having to do it all over again.. ugh! But hopefully it'll get better a little faster than the first time.. I'm DEFINITELY going to try and get them both exercising more and get them tired out and doing more challenging things.. just after all the poops and pees I'm so frustrated just looking at them frustrates me Wish me lots of luck.. if anyone has ANY more tips PLEASE lemme know!!

 

[Doberluv]

Well, if it wasn't you throwing the ball which reinforced the barking, something did....your saying "no" (talking to him) or something else. But behavior will not exist without a reinforcer. It may be experiemented on or tried, but will not continue without reinforcment. So, if you can figure out what the dog IS getting by barking at you to throw the ball, eliminate that. And stick to it for a long time...rewarding like you say for good behavior.

Changes don't happen overnight. And it's much more difficult to un-do behaviors which have been existing than it is to prevent them in the first place. But you can do it. I hope things improve for you. I know you're frustrated. But this too shall pass.

 

[Squidbert]

Well, if it wasn't you throwing the ball which reinforced the barking, something did....your saying "no" (talking to him)

I bet that's what it is.. *slaps head*
I can't think of anything else that it would be.. so from now on just ignore him when he talks to me like that? How long should I wait till we continue to play? Or should I just end the game then till later in the day? Should I just give him a command after he barks and then praise him when he does good? I'm just worried about praising him at the wrong time or something.. worried he'll associate the praise somehow with what he did bad if I praise him too soon after the bad thing.. Geez I feel like such an idiot! Thanks for all your help!!

 

[MomOf7]

ITs hard on dogs when our scheduals change. I would consider crates while your away so that when you get home your not already frustrated by the mess.
Also get a big jug of alcohol (not the drinking kind but that might help too )
Alcohol cleans up the urine smell really well. Just soak the area of pee and take a towel and clean it up. Works like a charm. I have even used it for my whole carpet in a carpet cleaner.

Take a nice hot bath, light some candles, cuddle up with the puppers and relax. You deserve a break girly

 

[Squidbert]

Thanks mom.. you've all made me feel better

I have a crate for Squid.. I've been getting him used to it.. and he's doing realy well.. I just don't know when he'll be 'ready' to stay in there? I think it's a matter of when I'm ready to put him in there too.. I feel bad.. I dunno.. I know it's ok to use a crate.. I just feel like I'm confining him to such a small area.. sigh..
But Squid's good when we're gone.. he stays in the bathroom and he doesn't do anything bad. He only pees when we're here.. And Tiki does it when we're gone..
I don't know if Tiki will ever be ok in a crate.. I'd be really scared to leave her in one.. I think she'd really hurt herself.. she freaked when being alone in a room before..
I think I've just been finding it so hard to do positive reinforcement lately.. since whenever I get home I just feel negatively about them and even if they do something good I keep thinking of how bad they've been.. well.. not BAD.. but you know what I mean..
And with the bratty way Squids been acting I haven't been wanting to do things with him as much.. that and I've been so exhausted from working long hours.. I know I need to do better.. hopefully that can start today..

 

[PWCorgi]

I Feel Your Pain!! LoL

I went through pretty much the same thing over the last few weeks with Izzy and Frodo now that tennis is over. They seemed to have forgotten any and all manners that I had worked so hard to teach them. They started to tear up the linolium(sp?) floor in the kitchen again (something I had spent countless hours trying to break them of) and to jump on the couches, chew wires, and bark theirear-piercing bark when I wasn't paying enough attention to them . It was SOOO frustrating and upsetting, I just wanted to lock myself in my room, away from the demons, and cry...so I did, and believe me, I felt so much better! And then I got to work...

Here is what I did:

#1-The Golden Rule for me- DON'T TRAIN THE DOGS WHEN YOU ARE FRUSTRATED OR UPSET!! It only makes the dogs upset and you get nowhere! If I was training and whichever dog I was working with at the time wasn't paying attention or listening, I would just sit down and play with them for a few minutes, no commands or working, just hugs and kisses. Not sure if this was the proper way to go about it, but it kept me from getting upset and that was what mattered.

#2- Up the exercise! My time spent exercising the dogs went from 20 minutes to 2 hours :yikes: . Before I was taking them for a walk together for 20 minutes, now I take them seperately for an hour each. I walk them to the field I train in which is 20 minutes away, train for 20 minutes, and walk the 20 minutes home to get the other dog.

#3- Walks are for walking...yup. Before I was dawdling around and letting the dogs sniff every tree, shrub, and blade of grass. Now we actually walk at a pace where we can get somewhere. I usually plan my walk out ahead of time along with a time I have to be back, and I take a watch so I am constantly going, not just wandering around.

#4- Train, Train, Train! I think this has made the biggest difference for me and the dogs. Even though they knew the basic commands and I would run through them whenever I had time, I wasn't challeging them. Now I work on training with each of them for 20 minutes a day, on hard stuff! I have moved past the basics and I am teaching them cool tricks (shake, roll over, etc.) as well as advanced obedience (I bought them a dumbell, now I just have to convince them it's not a chew toy ). It honestly seems to wear them out more than the physical execise does.

#5- Remember that you love them!! If you just stop and think about it, the amount of love that they give you doesn't even compare to the time you are cleaning up after them and dealing with their issues.

#6- IT GETS BETTER!! I am finally starting to see these demons turning back into my wacky, obedient corgis.

I hope that helps

 

[Doberluv]

Good advice from everyone. I think the hot bath sounds good. And such good advice to not try and train when you're in a crummy mood.

When the dog barks, turn your back and leave for a couple of minutes. You can then try thowing the ball for him. If he barks when he brings it back, repeat. If you can throw it before he gets a chance to bark, that would be great. You can ask him to go through some heeling or a sit or whatever...redirect him to something he can do. Just make a little seperation for him so he gets enough times where it's proved to him that the ball doesn't get thrown, he doesn't get anything good because he's demanding it.

I know you feel guilty for using the crate and it shouldn't be used to excess. Absolutely not. Save it for those times when you just can't watch him. The rest of the time you end up having to watch them like hawks until they get civilized.

That's just the way it goes. It's hard. I felt like you too at times with my Doberman pup. He was very, very rambunctious and rough, not an easy puppy. There were times I questioned my sanity....why did I do this? Those were the bad days. But most of the time we just trudged along and lo and behold, he finally grew up enough to be able to really work right into the whole scheme of things. He's become my heart dog. He's wonderful and your dogs will be too.

 

[Squidbert]

Thank you SOOOO much everyone!

The last couple of days I have been taking more time to exercise them both and train them.. so far things are a little better.. not much but a little and even that helps.. Squid isn't barking at me QUITE as much when we play.. hah..
BUT he has started doing it WHENEVER he doesn't get his way.. pretty much whenever I tell him 'no' he barks.. and not just a yap.. I mean like ROWF ROWF ROWF ROWF ROWF.. And when he and Tiki are rough housing he's barking very loudly.. A question on that.. Is it ok to give him a time out when he's behaving that way? Put him in another room or just close the door and not let him in the room we're in if he behaves that way? Or should I still just completly ignore? And should I not say 'no' or try to tell him he's doing wrong? Since all he does is talk back.. Ok.. that's more like 2 questions..

I know I love them both so much.. when they're sleeping (THANK GOD!) I cuddle them and I'm overwhelmed with love for them.. they're my babies!!
And last night Squid tried to protect me from Steve! It was TOO cute! Steve was tickling me and I was screaming and laughing.. Squid jumped in between us all worried looking.. licking me and trying to cover my so Steve couldn't touch me.. It about made me cry.. He loves me too!!
Thanks again everyone.. You've really made me feel better.. this place always does.. even just knowing someone else has been there.. and of course all the awesome advice.. thank you!!
I'm sure I'll be back soon with more gripes and question.. heehee

 

[Squidbert]

Bump..

 

[Lizmo]

Awww Squiddy!!!

Trust me, it gets better!!!

I have been training with Lizzie for over a year now and I am now finding that I am able to be able to give her commands and she will ALWAYS obey them.....from far away too!!! And finding that she wil come when EVER I tell her to!!!

I know a year is a long time but that was just for Lizzie....not every dog!!!

Awww squid is protecting you!!! That was a too cute story!!!