A Breeders Thoughts

Fran101

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Health testing may not be full proof, but it sure is better than nothing.

you ARE more likely to get a healthy dog from a breeder than a shelter. Im sorry you dont want to hear it, but with a dog from a GOOD breeder the odds are just in your favor. With healthy testing, healthy parents, etc..etc.. thats just how it is.
 
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soooo where did I call YOU a moron? Like I said, you must be joking.


you ARE more likely to get a healthy dog from a breeder than a shelter. Im sorry you dont want to hear it, but with a dog from a GOOD breeder the odds are just in your favor. With healthy testing, healthy parents, etc..etc.. thats just how it is.
I never contested this. What I contest is how big a deal people make out minor health problems to be ;)
 

AllieMackie

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I never contested this. What I contest is how big a deal people make out minor health problems to be ;)
Hip dysplasia is not minor. Collie eye anomaly is not minor.

And that's just the two major genetic health issues in the breed I'm familiar with. Finn has a very low risk of developing hip dysplasia (both parents are OFA Excellent) and he is clear of CEA, as his parents are clear.
 

Whisper

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The reason I enjoy having a chi that is CHI STANDARD is because a "standard" is more than just how they look, breeders also breed for correct temperament

as for looks, yes, I enjoy that also. I think chihuahuas, per standard, are a beautiful breed and breeders that breed to standard help keep chihuahuas looking like what chis are supposed to look/act like! lol

If we didnt have breeder to breed dogs for traits we like, all dogs would end up looking the same. Chihuahuas would just be..kinda small dogs. without a standard, how do we know what is a chi and what is a papillon, etc..

Yes, being pretty is A reason why I chose to go to a breeder for my chi. he is within standard, and is a beautiful dog. but it is now THE only reason

he has the right temperament for a chi, as in:
Alert, projecting the ‘terrier-like’ attitudes of self importance, confidence, self-reliance.

Without breeders breeding dogs that are the right temperament and "look" .. we wouldnt have all the AMAZING breeds we have today.

Its not about pretty. and I dont think Its that you can't understand, I think its that you dont want to.

THANK YOU! :hail::hail::hail:

I want a chi because I love everything about them. I want a chihuahua. I'm getting a certain breed because they fit what I'm looking for. What's the point in getting a dog that looks or acts nothing like what I want? I might as well get another breed.
That's irresponsible. That's why so many dogs end up in shelters.

I mentioned Lucy, but she is not the reason I'm getting a dog from a good breeder next time. It was just an example of a dog turning out not quite what you imagined. And now I'd like to leave my dog out of the rest of this. Thanks.
 
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Hip dysplasia is not minor. Collie eye anomaly is not minor.

And that's just the two major genetic health issues in the breed I'm familiar with. Finn has a very low risk of developing hip dysplasia (both parents are OFA Excellent) and he is clear of CEA, as his parents are clear.
I agree :)

with the smaller breeds, som'thing as devistating as HD is not likely :)

with most chis, patella problems are the biggest worry. :)
 

AllieMackie

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I agree :)

with the smaller breeds, som'thing as devistating as HD is not likely :)

with most chis, patella problems are the biggest worry. :)
Small dogs are not all the same. This isn't just about chihuahuas.

Some small dogs DO have HD issues. BCs do, and there are lots of BCs in rescue. Will I ever rescue a BC? Highly likely. But I'll know to potentially expect HD in its future, as with any other health issue.
 

corgipower

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soooo where did I call YOU a moron? Like I said, you must be joking.
You didn't. And I didn't call you a moron. Go reread.


I never contested this. What I contest is how big a deal people make out minor health problems to be ;)
Minor?? Not all health problems being tested for are MINOR. Degenerative Myelopathy is becoming a huge issue in pemmies, and many breeders are working their butts off to get it out of the gene pool. DM is far from MINOR.

Degenerative Myelopathy breakthrough announcement
A DNA test is now available for use by veterinarians, breeders and pet owners. This test is available through the OFA (Orthopedic Foundation for Animals). The test clearly identifies dogs that are clear (have 2 normal copies of the gene), those who are carriers (have one normal copy of the gene and one mutated copy of the gene), and those who are at much higher risk for developing DM (have 2 mutated copies of the gene). However, having two mutated copies of the gene does not necessarily result in disease
And hun, that's just one example of not-so-minor health issues that I want screened for.
 
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oh for petes sake, do I need to clarify everything. I said people make a big deal out of minor health problems. NOT all health problems are minor.

here is is again for those who missed it.

What I contest is how big a deal people make out minor health problems to be



So it's OK when you say I'm dumb?
this is what you said... if you don't think I called you dumb I don't get your point except to pick a fight. Which I really don't understand coming from you CP. I get it, your having a bad day, and I extended my offer to help, and then you jump on here nitpicking. Good to really see you.


Ironically, that disease you are so concerned about, is mostly prevalent in........ OH guess what. PB dogs!
 

Fran101

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I agree :)

with the smaller breeds, som'thing as devistating as HD is not likely :)

with most chis, patella problems are the biggest worry. :)
I personally think patella problems are a BIG worry. Especially with small, spunky, active dogs like chihuahuas

Ive met many chihuahuas with this problem... it has various stages. but makes walking uncomfortable, usually makes their back legs a bit bow legged and makes their gait pretty uncomfortable as far as natural position to walk in.
Walking uncomfortable, and sometimes, running not even an option. its a sad sad thing to see for a breed that is so energetic
and even if its not "that bad" when the dog is young, it gets worse as they get older :(

I do agility and am starting flyball with romeo. he is an active little dog who LOVE to run around. and I thank GOODNESS he does not have this problem because it would break my heart to see him in pain just to be able to run around and do what he loves

Unfortunately, with chis being as popular and badly bred as they are. Its more than just Luxating patellas that are an issue these days.
Usually, teeth are a disaster, hip displasya is getting more and more common, Cancer, etc..etc..
 

Picklepaige

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Ok, I tried to stay out of this thread, since I respect both rescuers and breeders, but I must say I disagree with Dekka. I volunteer at an extremely high kill shelter, and we tell everyone who drops off an animal (our biggest source of intake is oops litters) that their animal will more than likely be PTS. They just shrug and say that's life, so I really doubt they care if their animals are adopted or not.
 

Dekka

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Ironically, that disease you are so concerned about, is mostly prevalent in........ OH guess what. PB dogs!
Actually not really. Where is the database for non PB dogs?

Who lobbies for health testing on non PB dogs?

Who benefits from health testing? (breeders of PB dogs)

Who is accountable for their breeding (breeders of PB dogs)

Do pet people who get a cheap non PB dog worry about health testing or just take what comes?

Do people who breed mutts care about the long term health of their lines or if the buyers get a dog that needs a lot of care down the road...

As you can see its not that issues are relegated to PB dogs.. its that PB dog breeders are HELD accountable for producing dogs with issues. This is a good thing, a very good thing!! This is what we want.

But then the AR types and rescue nazis (not saying you are.. ) go around saying PB dogs have more issues. Its a 'symptom' of a good breeder to disclose issues and health test.

No heath testing means no problems to report!
 

MandyPug

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Saying because 'its pretty' is kind of missing the point. There's a LOT of reasons to enjoy well bred dogs other than looks. Looks play a part to me though. there are certain physical features in dogs I don't want.

Also just because chihuahuas and paps and pekes and pugs are all companion breeds doesn't mean they have the same temperament at all. Yes they all serve the same 'job' but they are very different in how they go about doing it. Nearly any dog can be a companion but I wasn't looking for any kind of companion, I was looking for a specific type of companion.
This times 10000000!

I got flack on alot of forums because i refuse to just "settle for what's available in shelters/rescue" since all I'm getting is a companion dog. Not just any dog will do, i do not like shihtzus or bichons or toy poodles or JRTs (except well bred ones like Dekka, Kat, and Wash) or dachshunds or any mix of those breeds. Those are all the small dogs that come into shelters and rescues her, i wanted a bloody pug not a fluffy dog or terrier and it's not going to change my mind with rescue people shoving fluffy dogs down my throat saying "they'll all do the same **** thing!". Rescue people remind me of used car salesmen that no matter how many times you tell them you want an lexus they keep trying to push the broken down gremlin in the corner of the lot because "it's a car and it does the same thing".

I like the look of pugs. I don't want a pug mix, i don't want any other type of dog. I want a pug because they are my breed and fit me best and i like the way they look. Why should i have a dog that i don't like to look at?
 

AllieMackie

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Actually not really. Where is the database for non PB dogs?

Who lobbies for health testing on non PB dogs?

Who benefits from health testing? (breeders of PB dogs)

Who is accountable for their breeding (breeders of PB dogs)

Do pet people who get a cheap non PB dog worry about health testing or just take what comes?

Do people who breed mutts care about the long term health of their lines or if the buyers get a dog that needs a lot of care down the road...

As you can see its not that issues are relegated to PB dogs.. its that PB dog breeders are HELD accountable for producing dogs with issues. This is a good thing, a very good thing!! This is what we want.

But then the AR types and rescue nazis (not saying you are.. ) go around saying PB dogs have more issues. Its a 'symptom' of a good breeder to disclose issues and health test.

No heath testing means no problems to report!
Dekka beat me to it and said it better than I could. I agree.
 

Dekka

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Ok, I tried to stay out of this thread, since I respect both rescuers and breeders, but I must say I disagree with Dekka. I volunteer at an extremely high kill shelter, and we tell everyone who drops off an animal (our biggest source of intake is oops litters) that their animal will more than likely be PTS. They just shrug and say that's life, so I really doubt they care if their animals are adopted or not.
People are good at believing what they want. You say 'likely'. If you say oh here come in the back and hold your dog we are going to PTS it as we don't have room.. see if they are ok with that..

Some people won't care, but so many think that a miracle will happen for fluffy. Its like people who dump dogs/cats on the side of the road in the country. They think the animal will find a home. (I have talked to people who have admitted to dumping cats near farms)
 
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I completely see your point and what you are getting at dekka. But every single hit on that disease came up with "this disease is found mostly in breeds A B and C".

*some* pb does are more prone to certain issues on average than the random mutt. Of course that is assumming we are talking about ALL pb dogs, not just screened dogs :)

No heath testing means no problems to report!
yes, but don't these numbers come from diagnosed dogs? Not screened dogs?
 

corgipower

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this is what you said... if you don't think I called you dumb I don't get your point except to pick a fight.
:lol-sign:
Yep. I was just echoing the same thing you said. :D You called us snobs, and I personally do not appreciate being considered a snob simply because I prefer purebred dogs.

Ironically, that disease you are so concerned about, is mostly prevalent in........ OH guess what. PB dogs!
Degenerative Myelopathy - Ongoing Research
As of May 19, 2009 we have found the mutation present in over 75 breeds as well as mixed breed dogs.
If you mix two breeds and each parent carries a gene for DM, you end up with a mixed breed with DM.
 

Dekka

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I completely see your point and what you are getting at dekka. But every single hit on that disease came up with "this disease is found mostly in breeds A B and C".

*some* pb does are more prone to certain issues on average than the random mutt. Of course that is assumming we are talking about ALL pb dogs, not just screened dogs :)



yes, but don't these numbers come from diagnosed dogs? Not screened dogs?
Most numbers are from screened dogs. Only because screening centres keep databases. Vets don't report things like this unless they are a part of a study.

as well you have the issue of people bothering to find out. Take cataracts in JRTs. I have met dogs with juvinle cataracts, you would never know from the dog's behaviour that there was anything wrong. Unless you are a breeder, or a breeder has asked you to check.. is JQ Public going to have his dog checked for things that are not obvious?

Dog gets old and infirm, so many pet owners assume this is normal. Could be a genetic disease. But once again unless they test for it, it could be labelled 'old age'
 

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