saturday was awesome!

Dogs do not need to be cowering or timid to be fearful. Someone who is inexperienced in reading canine behavior could quite easily pass a highly stressed or anxiety ridden dog off as being 'excited' or 'drivey'.

You can sugar coat it is as much as you want but the FACT is that dogs who are "trained" (if you can call it that) using force/negativity and bullying tactics are NOT happy dogs. You do not need a Ph.D in behavior to figure that one out.

How does being made to climb a giant wooden near vertical ramp translate to real life stressful situations?

A wagging tail does not mean a happy dog.

I have a very sensitive pointer that when nervous and afraid(because of methods/corrections too harsh for his temperament) will jump up and down "happily", wagging his tail, and otherwise lookin like he's just trying to have fun.. but he's not.

It is about being able to look at a dog and see past the obvious. Sure, he looks happy..but he's not. He's afraid and trying to win over my praise, to distract me from whatever it is that I am beginning to feel frustrated. People that don't understand dog behavior are often actually quite confused when I immediately stop training when my dog is having such "fun". Why would I want to end his fun? I should encourage it. And that IS exactly why I quit when he displays this behavior.

Sadly, what you've got is a bunch of trainers on an ego trip. Bullying, intimidating, and forcing their dog to do stupidly long and boring exercises is a way to boost that ego and make them feel good. And that is terribly sad and disgusting.

The most important thing any trainer could possibly do is to

Learn to train without ego

You've been completely brainwashed by this guy. There is no way in the world that I would ever train my dog to be like that or expect him to learn such a useless command. Don't project your ridiculous expectations onto my dog.

As I said before, I train Herschel to want to work with me. There are hundreds of things that he can do that Richling's dogs can't, and similarly, there are a lot of things that I would never teach Herschel that Richling's dogs do all of the time.

One of those absolutely useless things is:

Why in the world would you subject your dog to that? A lot of us that are in agility often have our dogs wait while we run sequences with another dog. We just put them in a crate and let them relax for a while. Why in the world should they have to sit still for 3 hours? That's torture, causes unnecessary muscle strain, and terrible for the mental health of the animal. You're advocating not even giving the dog the freedom to move?!
Advance the dog in its training for what? What is your goal with all of this training? There are plenty of us that have well-rounded, civilized dogs that don't use physical abuse to train. What is the purpose that you want out of your dog?

This sounds like a really insecure guy decided that he could get ahead in life by beating smaller animals into submission. He saw that it worked and that he could control something by force so he wanted to turn a profit on it. Thus, Richling opened his training school. Now, other people see his machismo and enjoy the pleasure of subjugating another being so they join.

Do you enjoy watching Richling work with and train dogs? I'm sure you do. For some reason, people thrive on dominating lesser beings. According to Camus, it is at the heart of every man.

"Every man needs slaves as he needs fresh air. Commanding is breathing--you agree with me? And even the most destitute manage to breath. The lowest man in the social scale still has his wife or his child. If he's unmarried, a dog. The essential thing, after all, is being able to get angry with someone who has no right to talk back." -Albert Camus, The Fall

Its STRESS! stress can be anything : a cat running across its path, a squirrel running up a tree, someone riding a bike down the road. it doesn't matter to what degree the stress is or where its coming from its all STRESS!

The dog learns to trust its master that nothing will happen to it on this "ramp". The master will guide it and not let it fall.

What?! A squirrel is stress?



Be afraid, dog. Be very afraid. :lol-sign:

Richling was certified in "positive reinforcement methods." He gave that up when the dogs were not able to work in the real world and went to the old german ways because it works in the real world.

If positive methods worked in the real world out on the streets that he patrols with Zadok he would use them, but it doesn't. His dog has to be able to listen to 100% of the time, the first time he tells him to. And at a distance.

You know I was giving up on this thread, but then noticed some people who's opinions I respect posted, so I read. Now this is the first thing that makes sense. You train the dog that the world is a scary, and dangerous place where your most beloved person hits you..of course you are going to have to do something to try to regain trust. Personally I don't beat the dog in the first place.

They work, he just didn't' know how to use and apply them. And instead of looking at his own abilities(or lack of), he went back to the much too easy dominating and bullying over dogs to boost his ego.

And he's even become quite skilled at brainwashing.

I encourage you to start reading. Some very good books include

Don't Shoot the Dog by Karen Pryor
The Culture Clash by Jean Donaldson
The Other End of the Leash by Patricia B McConnell
Bones Would Rain From The Sky by Suzanne Clothier

What does that mean? By the way, I like that he says the other trainers in the group are "certified". Just because he taught them to hit dogs with sticks doesn't make them certified trainers.

What does that mean? You're coughing up all of these ambiguous catch phrases without explaning them at all. The real world? Are you saying that the rest of us live in a "fake" world? (This brings back memories of "Only working dogs are real dogs")

I live in the real world. Earth to little boy. Wake up, man. We all live in the real world--this isn't the Matrix. Are you planning on patrolling "the streets" with your Aussie? If not, why in the world are you training for that?

:hail: :hail: :hail: Who would have thought it was as easy as that? You mean.. I just shouldn't beat my dog? Wow!

Even I began to forget, so I'm posting here to remind everyone when posting to take into consideration the age and maturity of the poster. If I remember correctly and judging by his/her posts, this person is young, probably early teenage years. In our disagreement and argument, let us remember that and to practice what we preach: kindness, whether that be to dog or person.

(Though, don't be fooled. I'm as disgusted at the rest of the abuse of these dogs that undergo this "training" and being hit bit sticks.)

If that squirrel is running and activates the dog's prey drive its stress. You don't want that stress over riding your command and him running out in the street with a car coming down the road at 80 mph and hitting your dog.

And no, the dog learns to trust you in obedience too with all the distractions. It also gives the dog a job to do that it normally would not have.

From the website:

We just had an agility class with our trainer this morning outside. There were horses and sheep in the pasture right next to us, cars driving by, and two other dogs. I kept his focus and we had so much fun.

Training outdoors isn't a new concept at all. I would be weary of any trainer that claims that as one of his attributes.

I hate that I can't stop reading this thread.

I'm going to go ahead and type up a bit of a long story that will probably be ignored ( ), but which I think is pertinant to the discussion. A couple of weeks ago, I got a call about housesitting. The owner insisted I come over and meet the dogs before I committed, since they were high drive, competitive Shutzhund GSDs. My first thought was "I'm gonna turn and run when she hands me a choke chain attached to an aggressive dog". But, I needed the money, so I figured I'd go see.

The dogs were stunning. They were clearly pretty intense, but were not at all aggressive and were walked on flat collars. The owner told me to use treats if I wanted.

After we visited with the dogs and chatted for a while, I confessed that I'd been worried she was going to be an old-school, "German" trainer. It turns out her oldest male had actually been trained in Germany originally. She had been interested in him when he was young and showing promise, but he was far too expensive. A year or two later, his trainers called him "trash" because he was so shut down he wouldn't work, or even look at anybody anymore. This woman bought him cheap, brought him home and "fed him steak and hot dogs" for two years. When she brought him back to competition, she qualified him for Worlds.

I loved that story; I love knowing there are people out there who know you can do ANY kind of work with dogs by using positive methods. I love that her dogs were happy, comfortable, and pleasant in the house. If I ever own a dog with that type of drive, I would have no problems going to her for assistance.

You don't have to hit your dog to make them obey. I can call my prey-driven hunting breed off of rabbit and squirrel. All it would take is one little smack and a minute of yelling, and I would put her 'stays' against any other dogs; she can shut down and cower like a star. I sincerely doubt she would ever work for me again, but she wouldn't move. However, I'd rather she be the bold, happy, confident dog that she has shown me she is capable of being. If it means I stick her in a crate to contain her rather than putting her in a down stay, so be it. I like knowing that same willing dog is going to be there when I come back, rather than a shell of a dog.

We have fun doing this agility course. There were 20 other dogs and some of richling's brother's dogs in their giant pen next to the course because the course is liberty K9's course. and its right near a road. so cars were coming by. During obedience they made a lot of noise with different guns and sirens so the dogs would get used to distractions and learn not to break the stay or heeling.

In a pen?? You'd think his own brother's dogs would be able to hold a simple down stay .

Postive reinforcement methods that involve hitting a dog with a stick? that is new on on me.

Gosh, this one is new on me too. Chasing a squirrel is stressful to a dog? that is like me saying I think eating a bar of chocolate is stressful.

Of course, why your dog would be loose anywhere near a 80mph street would be anyones guess.

Yes they would. They are police K-9. They are trained already. He has pups to that are in training.



If the dog can't chase the squirrel then yes its stressful. It prey to a dog.

Its any road. People don't always follow speed limits and it could be any speed.espically down the road we live on. People fly down it all the time even though now its a 40 mph speed zone.

Isn't stressful when you've taught the dog that things in the world are unavailable to him or her until you give them up.. But oh darn.. that's positive training and your trainer apparently doesn't do that. Couldn't get much more tooly than what you are spouting. Lord.