Invisible Children

chinchow

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#1
The high school showed a video this morning on the troubles in Uganda. The children being kidnapped and brainwashed, given guns and being told to kill people. A few students found this video and are pushing the rest of the student body to help.
One of my kids is in a class that is making it a requirement to do a poster in hopes of raising awareness and getting help for these children. Apparently, a few of the kids in the class do not think this is fair, and are actually refusing to do this project, and even offered to do a poster on individual rights instead.

I was a little shocked when I heard this.
I was shocked they showed this documentary, since our schools are extremely strict (school nurses are not even allowed to lay a finger on any student), and shocked that a project is being required to persuade help, for the same reason as above.


Though I listened to one of my kid's friends explain why he didn't support this movement, I had to say, it was an ignorant statement and reason he made. I might be shocked that this project is on the ciriculum now, but I do not agree with the things I heard this student say, and I'm glad that a teacher is asking them to do this, personally. I was appauled at the way this student was talking about these poor children, though. When I tried to explain things to him, he completely rubbed it off as rubbish and said it's best left up to the country it's happening in, and that was that.
I felt no need to carry on a debate with a hard-headed teenager, for one. But especially an overly-privileged hard-headed teenager, only concerned about the well-being of himself.

As parents, how would you feel if your child, being required to do a project just informing and slightly persuading help for people in a third-world country, with no food or clean water, refused to do so because they felt that that country should deal with it's own problems? My own child does not feel this way, but I honestly don't know what I would say if any of them did; I'd obviously be upset, but we as parents always push for individuality and want children to form opinions on their own. Do you think it would be difficult to deal with a child with this mentality? And what do you think about a school showing these documentaries that don't fall short of the save the children fund commercials, they just go into greater detail...and even go so far as to tell the students they have to make posters to raise awareness?
 

smkie

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#2
i would applaud the teacher for not "looking the other way".
 

ACooper

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#3
You might be surprised to know how many people feel that way, and this kid could very well be a mirror of his own parents view on the subject.

I think I would discuss it with my kid, tell them my view point and why I feel the way I do about it. Then I would ultimately let them make their choice even if I didn't agree with it. I would even talk to the school on their behalf if needed.

But I would want to be certain that my child wasn't just saying things to get out of the project through sheer laziness (as sometimes happens) and make sure they had to do a project of equal value & effort that they would feel comfortable with.
 

chinchow

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#4
I'm very happy with this teacher's decision. From what I know of him, he is very nice, very educated, and obviously, very concerned. I was told he was very upset hearing the way the students rejected this project so harshly, and he has every right to be. IMO
 

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#5
I don't have a problem against the invisible children campaign. What I do have a problem with is people who are adamently against us going into Iraq, saying our government should stay out of other countries business, and then they turn around and write letters to the president and congress telling them to do something about the invisible children thing in Africa.

I don't think it is right for a teacher to force them to do it if they don't believe in it. If it's an American school maybe they should practice saying the Pledge of Allegience first. If they can't support America in American schools, then why should they support Africa?

Now don't get me wrong. I feel terrible for those children, and it is a good cause, but what about the children in America? The ones that don't have homes, etc? Why is everything about every other country, but the one you live in? Everyone makes such a big deal about adopting children from Africa or wherever and helping them out with their problems...see the commercials on TV all the time. I have never once seen a commercial for people to support and adopt American children.

Either way, it's great that they are educating people about it, but I believe it should be left up to them to make their own decision and should not be required to do a project like that if they don't believe in it. They should be giving the same assignment but be able to choose a cause they believe in.
 

jess2416

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#6
Now don't get me wrong. I feel terrible for those children, and it is a good cause, but what about the children in America? The ones that don't have homes, etc? Why is everything about every other country, but the one you live in? Everyone makes such a big deal about adopting children from Africa or wherever and helping them out with their problems...see the commercials on TV all the time. I have never once seen a commercial for people to support and adopt American children.
:hail: :hail: I couldnt have said it better myself
 
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#7
i would applaud the teacher for not "looking the other way".
I agree with you on this, Smkie.

However, I find it wrong that the teacher is forcing the kids to do a project on what amouts to charity work for a specific charity/issue, whether they agree with it or not. And ironically this project is about children being forced to something, whether they agree with it or not.

Perhaps a better project would be for the students to then research and find a social issue/charity that means something to them and do a poster/presentation about that, imho.
 

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#8
Children helping children can do more than adults at times. Ireland showed this was true . I've always thought South Pacific's " They've got to be properly taught " quite eye opening . Too many pick up their parent's hatreds . I never had other races around me when I grew up . At an early age I heard my Mother put down many ( she was from New York ) .... I finally asked her why she felt that way . Her only answer was because her father did . I can truthfully say that I have no predigests ...... except for those who don't help themselves.
 

chinchow

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#9
To be fair, the teacher isn't really forcing anything. It's on the plan, it's a required project.

Considering the class (graphic communications) there is nothing that says the students have to believe in what they are advertising (which is really what all advertisers go through everyday) regardless of what it is. Often in ads, what do you see?..."This is not necessarily the viewpoint of so and so..." My child did inform me that the teacher said to those who were so against it, that they could put in small print at the bottom that this may not be their views/opinions etc. but that this was their project.

Also, keeping in mind, since this is an advertising class, in a sense, they will have other oppurtunities to do their own posters for things (my daughter is doing one on pet shop truths, after hearing a peer talking about how much she loved working there and how healthy the puppies are).
Going into the class, the students should know that there will be things required of them that they will not agree with. What child likes homework? Can't please them all.

I'll say, this particular project isn't to raise money, just awareness. I read over the rubric for it earlier, and there's nothing that says they have to speak of anyone giving to anyone else...it would be their choice to do that based on the message they get from the individual posters, which seems completely fine, since that's what people do otherwise.

In these types of classes, there is no free-work in the beginning. They have to follow strict guidelines for projects, that eventually start to die down, and by the end of the year, they are doing their own projects that they make up, only following the basic principles of the class (I used to teach a course very similar to this to high school students).
 
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#10
First, it isn't really about countries or nationalities, it's about other living beings. Children. Ever read about the Children's Crusade in the middle ages? Very similar. Children. And does it matter if they're in Africa, America, Indonesia or Outer Mongolia?

Next, if I somehow spawned something that had such a callous and crass outlook . . . "It's not happening to me so I shouldn't care" and thinking that whoever had the problem should deal with it alone, and if they don't, too bad . . . I think that spawn would find itself suddenly learning what it was like to have to have to deal with 'problems' on its own. Existence would become very minimalist. Four bare walls, a cot, subsistence clothing, no laundry service, prepare your own food from a very limited resource, no rides to school - either bus or walk; anything above and beyond minimum subsistence would have to be bartered for by unpleasant tasks. No help would be allowed. They do their own laundry, any of the everyday things that kids expect to be done for them would be withheld.

THEN, after a period of time, let them learn how much a little help can improve one's outlook on life and standard of living.

No, the child described in that post is one who takes far too much for granted.

That said, requiring participation in supporting a charity isn't right either. The ones who don't wish to support the cause can be assigned to do other things, like a research paper on the issue or an essay explaining and supporting their position on the issue and the reasons they declined to participate.
 
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#11
You might be surprised to know how many people feel that way, and this kid could very well be a mirror of his own parents view on the subject.

I think I would discuss it with my kid, tell them my view point and why I feel the way I do about it. Then I would ultimately let them make their choice even if I didn't agree with it. I would even talk to the school on their behalf if needed.

But I would want to be certain that my child wasn't just saying things to get out of the project through sheer laziness (as sometimes happens) and make sure they had to do a project of equal value & effort that they would feel comfortable with.
I agree 100%. This would be a great way to handle it.:hail: :)
 
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#12
I'd reject any project that only allowed one viewpoint on principal alone.

They have a viable position, why help another country when we have rampant AIDs, sexual abuse of women and children, homelessness, ect in our country. They should do a poster for another type of charity or cause in the US if they don't agree with helping the other country while we have our own problems.
 

zoe08

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#13
To be fair, the teacher isn't really forcing anything. It's on the plan, it's a required project.

Considering the class (graphic communications) there is nothing that says the students have to believe in what they are advertising (which is really what all advertisers go through everyday) regardless of what it is. Often in ads, what do you see?..."This is not necessarily the viewpoint of so and so..." My child did inform me that the teacher said to those who were so against it, that they could put in small print at the bottom that this may not be their views/opinions etc. but that this was their project.

Also, keeping in mind, since this is an advertising class, in a sense, they will have other oppurtunities to do their own posters for things (my daughter is doing one on pet shop truths, after hearing a peer talking about how much she loved working there and how healthy the puppies are).
Going into the class, the students should know that there will be things required of them that they will not agree with. What child likes homework? Can't please them all.

I'll say, this particular project isn't to raise money, just awareness. I read over the rubric for it earlier, and there's nothing that says they have to speak of anyone giving to anyone else...it would be their choice to do that based on the message they get from the individual posters, which seems completely fine, since that's what people do otherwise.

In these types of classes, there is no free-work in the beginning. They have to follow strict guidelines for projects, that eventually start to die down, and by the end of the year, they are doing their own projects that they make up, only following the basic principles of the class (I used to teach a course very similar to this to high school students).
So you are saying your daughter is going to do an ad against pet shops right, but what if she was required to make an ad for pet shops?
 

chinchow

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#14
So you are saying your daughter is going to do an ad against pet shops right, but what if she was required to make an ad for pet shops?
This ad would be one of the ones she would be able to do towards the middle/end of the year. They start off with a few basic things that have guidelines they follow, as it goes more into the year, the guidelines fade away, so taht they can give their own special things to them.

A topic such as animals is rarely EVER used in schools, unfortunately.

I also know he won't be assigning that because she asked him. ;)
I have a pretty good, straight-forward daughter...and if I know her as well as I think, she probably told him that she was doing it against pet shops, regardless of what he thought, LOL. She reads these forums, so for a teenager, she has as strong an opinion on that as anyone.

BUT, like I said....this is a class for advertising, and there is an option to say that you don't necessarily agree with the awareness campaign (as I said, they aren't doing this to raise money, and nowhere does it state they have to say one thing about giving anything to anyone, except attention).

This is why I have put this question out there...there are students who directly believe that we should not be posing this tragedy in America for people to even push their eyes at. They think it belongs in that country...let THAT country, THOSE people, worry about it THEMSELVES.
It has absolutely nothing to do with them believing we should give them money...it has to do with the fact that no matter who you are, everyone who is in such a horrible situation, no matter where, who, what colour, sex, sexuality, etc, shouldn't have so many people turn their heads at the situation, many because it's "just too hard to look at".

At the very least, lend attention, even if you do nothing about it, you will at least have the thought in your head that you could do something, possibly spread the word.


The particular things this student said to me were that the video should have never been shown, and no American should've ever been "pigheaded enough to put themselves in that sort of danger..." and that type of mentality stuns me. It seems now, that any problem not in America that is raised to the public is some sort of outcry to OUR American government for help.
That is not the case.
No video of these children that I have seen (over a dozen) has ever made any statements about the U.S. government. Our own country's problems are out there, and we are aware of them. Even if they did ask our government for help...we wouldn't send a soul over there. Why? Because there is nothing in Uganda for America...no natural resources are there. It's just an extreme problem within their own people turning against eachother.
Perhaps if there were no children involved, then nothing would be said...that is how it is in many other countries. But, when a 10 year old is kidnapped, and given a gun, taught only to kill kill kill, and eat less than a full harty meal a day with no clean water or real shelter...you have to ask yourself if something is actually wrong with you if you can honestly say that this is a problem better left alone.

Working in public schools, I assigned projects that had a similar underlying view. Some students did oppose some projects...but they usually did it because they didn't understand. So...we studied, we researched, I explained, other students explained, and everyone listened. I never had a student refuse to do a project.
Sadly, however, there was a parent who called, very upset that his son was "taught" that religion is a choice and cannot be forced on anyone in this country, legally, and shouldn't be considered life or death.
If only teachers could've taught them a little something as well.

I'm all for a healthy debate. Renee, I really like the way you think, too! I can't think of a better way to make an over-privileged child appreciate what he or she has.

I remember once in a class, I quoted Animal House (Knowledge is good) and a student laughed and said "yeah...right".
So I started asking them life questions that they had not encountered yet, things they would learn in a higher grade, but not in my class or any classes they were in currently. Things in the real world.
They didn't answer one. And for the rest of the year, they passed everything.

I never forced any work on her, I never threatened anything...I simply let her be aware of something...she took it her own way and ran with it.
 

zoe08

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#15
My question was what if she was required to do a ad FOR pet shops. Not what her opinion on it is. You were saying this was required for school so the kids should have to do it (or at least this is what I read into the post). But would you want your daughter to make an ad promoting pet shops because the school told her too?

I think it's great that your daughter has formed these opinions on her own, and I think the students in her class should be able to form their opinions on their own and not be required to do such a project if they really don't believe in it. I am willing to bet she would be pretty upset if she had to make a poster of an ad FOR a pet shop, something she doesn't believe in.

My point isn't whether or not the invisible children is a good cause or something people should be aware of. My point is that even though they are in high school they should still have choices and not be required to do something they don't believe in. If they can't pray in school or say Under God in the Pledge of Allegience (not sure if it has come to this yet), then in my opinion they shouldn't be trying to make the kids promote other people's beliefs, when they can't even promote the things they have believed in for a lot longer than the issue of the invisible children.

Like I said, I feel sorry for those kids, and I don't think what is happening there is right. But like I said many supporters of the inivisible children thing don't believe Iraq is our business so why is Africa? If Iraq can take care of itself the way they treated women and children, then why can't Africa? My point is that people who are really big hypocrites about this tick me off. And I don't know what you believe outside of this, and whatever you believe is fine. But I do believe the public school system in America is messed up. Maybe they should try praying for those children instead of just making posters about it, but I can bet you that that wouldn't be allowed in school.
 

jason_els

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#16
Frankly I'm dismayed.

Whether anyone is asking for money for the Uganda problem is beside the point. These are propaganda videos being directed at children. These videos are in English correct? Then guess who the target audience is? It's the USA.

"Oh you don't have to believe in what you're doing, just do it because we told you to." Talk about brainwashing! You're telling kids who have an ethical issue to ignore their ethical beliefs and do something contrary. What does that teach a child? That it's ok to compromise your ethics when powerful people tell you to. Regardless of the reason, you're telling them to act in a contrary manner.

Maybe you find that student's reasoning to be deficient or callous but really, if it is, then the school has failed to do the job of teaching the student how to think. Why not have the students instead debate the issue? Teach them to learn why they think the way they do and how to gather information to make an informed decision rather than force them to compromise (as you describe) an uninformed decision?

Now, in the real world, in a real advertising agency, if you have an ethical problem with an account, you don't work on the account. Here there's no choice. Just the fact that there is a teacher telling a student to do something is onus enough on the student. Teachers hold a lot of power over students by virtue of their position.

This project is a disaster. First it's exposing children to some undisclosed organization's propaganda film about a disturbing issue, then it tells the kids to do something to promote, "awareness," of the issue. Rather kids should be learning about who made the movie and why? What are their goals? Why is it being showed to children? What are the motives of the people who created this? Now THAT would be a real education in advertising.

Either you will be a pawn or you will be able to detect who is trying to use you as a pawn. This project teaches kids how to be pawns. I would not allow my child to participate in this project unless it taught my child how to think, rather than how to just follow directions to push somebody else's agenda without question.

Schools cannot teach children to be ethical. You don't like what the kid said, then too bad. Schools can, and should, teach children to think.
 

chinchow

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#17
Now, in the real world, in a real advertising agency, if you have an ethical problem with an account, you don't work on the account. Here there's no choice. Just the fact that there is a teacher telling a student to do something is onus enough on the student. Teachers hold a lot of power over students by virtue of their position.

This project is a disaster. First it's exposing children to some undisclosed organization's propaganda film about a disturbing issue, then it tells the kids to do something to promote, "awareness," of the issue. Rather kids should be learning about who made the movie and why? What are their goals? Why is it being showed to children? What are the motives of the people who created this? Now THAT would be a real education in advertising.
Well, in the real world of advertising, it's about the money. Opinions about the product rarely count. That is why paid programming is headed and followed with the "these are not necessarily the views of our network" statements. And since this is a class aimed at that particular job, I think that should be taken into account.

Also, the movie did infact have a lot of information about those who filmed it, why they went there, and gives a few websites on what is actually happening, without propaganda. It's actually the stories of the children, from the children.


As far as that pet shop ad, no, she wouldn't do it.
But, that would be for her ethical reasons.
My point, was that these students are not looking at what is actually happening. Off the bat, they didn't want to do this project, because they believed American Government belongs in America, period. They ignored the fact that no pleas have been made specifically to America by those children or their parents. The pleas are just to anyone who is willing to help, and mostly, prayers.
There is definitely a difference in forming an opinion based on facts, and forming one based on what you feel because of something else happening, without knowing anything (that something else being Iraq in particular, though that is one issue that our local school system CANNOT discuss because the debates become SO heated).

There's a lot of information that I obviously haven't posted, because I assumed this was happening in more schools than just ours. Apparently our school is doing this for black history month, which is great, but I wonder if any other schools have dedicated a day to these children.
Walking in the halls, there are banners that simply say "INVISIBLE CHILDREN...HEAR THEIR STORY"...nothing more or less.

Then again, you could make an argument that classes should ban persuasive writing, because MANY english and history classes will split students into two groups...and they write supporting or opposing one thing, regardless of what they think, if they agree with the side they get or not. The split would have to be equal, or as close to equal as possible.
If everyone were allowed to really sit down and do what they felt, if their opinion on a topic were different, there wouldn't be a really solid ciriculum, especially in history/government classes, since many teachers focus on what HAS happened, as opposed to what could've happened, and only want to hear one side because of that.

Here's the rubric for this particular project, my daughter did give me the sheet when I asked for it, and, she actually apologized for making me think about this topic and upsetting anyone (honest, she did!):

-Stick to basic design principles
-Use optical centering for your header
-Include images directly from, or at least relating to the topic
-Greyscale
-Make it eyecatching (your poster should stick out to people, as there will be many hanging up)
-Briefly explain the situation using FACTS
-8.5 x 11 (STC)

Sounds fair enough to me.

Now, had the teacher randomly come up with this project, and had the video never been shown, most likely, nobody would have objected. There's nothing on persuasive arguments, the only thing that I could see bothering anyone would be the images (considering there are some extremely disturbing ones, my daughter said that the office apparently didn't edit the movie correctly, and a brief shot of a slaughtered body was on the screen and everyone was upset).

So, if there was never any comments on making it about a simple act of awareness, and just merely said to make it stand out, would it be different? Would anyone who opposes the project, without knowing the information I've already shared, think differently about the whole thing?

If this were, say, a project on raising awareness on puppy mills, or on animal abuse, and a child were to step up and say "I'm not doing this...I do what I want with my animals..I paid for them, you can't tell me what to do. It's unconstitutional anyway.." would it hit closer to home?

I'm just wondering, really, what should be allowed today in public schools. I'm all for this project, obviously, but I question as well why it is being allowed, merely because of how upsetting it is to even watch commercials about third-world countries...let alone being sent out to get images to get people's attention.
 

jason_els

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#18
My point, was that these students are not looking at what is actually happening. Off the bat, they didn't want to do this project, because they believed American Government belongs in America, period. They ignored the fact that no pleas have been made specifically to America by those children or their parents. The pleas are just to anyone who is willing to help, and mostly, prayers.
My point is precisely that. These kids aren't taught by the school how to make informed decisions. That's the sad part. Kids aren't taught how to research, reason, question, debate, defend, and examine contexts. Had the schools done that then the kids would have had defensible reasons. Instead they're spouting what their peers or parents or the media tells them without the slightest thought of how they came to that conclusion. To me, it appears the school is trying to teach a lesson in persuasive writing AND a more subtle lesson in ethics.

If this film is in English, is in the US, and the maker is making the rounds of US talk shows (just saw him on The Daily Show), they they are making a point of targeting the US with the film. Impoverished brainwashed kids don't up and make a movie with no backing from somewhere. The school's project doesn't address this at all, ironically for a class that is supposedly teaching exactly what that film is trying to do.

This is precisely why I begged my parents to send me to boarding school. Public education in the US scares me.
 

zoe08

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#19
As far as that pet shop ad, no, she wouldn't do it.
Whether or not they would ask them to do a project over animals is irrelevant. The issue is that she would not do an ad over something she strongly disagrees with.

If students don't believe in God they don't have to say the pledge of allegiance. Because a few people don't believe in God they can't pray in school.
So how come because these students don't believe the same thing you do, or that the school does, they still have to do it?

I have to say I agree with Jason. They should be teaching them about propaganda and both sides of the issues. Doing a poster isn't really teaching you a lot. Now if they had to write an essay both sides, that teaches real journalism where you have to write without a bias.
 

chinchow

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#20
If this film is in English, is in the US, and the maker is making the rounds of US talk shows (just saw him on The Daily Show), they they are making a point of targeting the US with the film. Impoverished brainwashed kids don't up and make a movie with no backing from somewhere. The school's project doesn't address this at all, ironically for a class that is supposedly teaching exactly what that film is trying to do.

This is precisely why I begged my parents to send me to boarding school. Public education in the US scares me.
I am not the biggest fan of public education either. My youngest is homeschooled, my older daughter likes public school because of her friends, so I don't make her be homeschooled. She loves going. My youngest hates it, though. She cannot be pushed, and the teachers here push the young children WAY too hard, as if they are already in high school, and I dislike it a lot.

I'm not sure if this is the same film you saw. This one was a documentary by a bunch of kids, as far as I know. Bought everything themselves and went over voluntarily, not by an organization, they just seemed genuinely concerned.

Jason pointed out pretty well what I mean, especially considering the pet shop ad you talked about Zoe. My point was...her choice not to do something would be based on ETHICS AND FACTS...now just what these kids believe based on something else unrelated. Which was my point. They realy have no legitimate reason to disapprove of the project, because they only saw a 30 minute film on it. If that is the basis of the project itself, if they had to write a paper on it, they should, even if they find the topic disturbing.
This is a quaint disturbance to what many of these children will face in real life on their own, compared to what THEY are used to.


ETA: My daughter is taking this course because it directly relates to what she is going to college for, in both her major and one of her minors. She is deadset on factual advertising.
To be honest...I HATE watching television with the kid...she's got a motormouth when it comes to how she views things, and not necessarily on her opinions either. There's some things she's pointed out to me that I never even thought of, that were actually facts.
About animal education in school though...on a different note...I really think it should be more than just biology science classes. This current project on awareness was visualized, and 'ratified' in a few days. A few months ago she asked about putting up flyers regarding PeTA (we live near the headquarters) and their misconceptions, and it was flat-out refused. Why? Because animal cruelty isn't big enough to recognize as an issue, apparently, it has nothing to do with education.
There's another reason I have grown less fond of public schooling since I stopped teaching...the schools are so focused on certain things, banging concepts into the heads of our kids, that their concerns are the least of anyone's worries. Genuine concerns, too.
I often wonder how many kids go into a school office, yearly, and try to get something started like that, using the school as their venue for it, since it's obviously the best place. I wonder how many are turned down too, as my daughter was.
 

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