New 2007 California Law

While I do agree with you about crating for long periods of time in small, cramped crates, crating is absolutely NOT cruel when done the way it is intended. You're hopefully talking about extremes, not crating for a few hours.

I always recommend that clients crate train their puppies with time guidelines. Adult dogs, over a year, can and should be transitioned, one room at a time, into house freedom if possible or to a larger enclosed safe room when total freedom is not an option.

If I were to have to choose between crating a dog for a few hours to a tie out for the same amount of time...it's a no brainer. Crates are much safer than tie outs for so many reasons.

Also, assuming that dogs are confined to crates where they can only stand up and turn around (as is appropriate for puppy training) is another extreme. I agree that this should never be done for adult dogs for extended periods.

Many clients who claim to crate their dogs during the day are using x-pens and other large extendable crates for safety reasons. While I would never leave my dog crated for more than 3 hours tops (and I do on occasion do this with four of my five dogs), crating is much safer and not a horrible thing to do at all.

I should videotape Amos, Lola, Tinker and Tia when I say..."OK guys, I'm going out"..they all jump off the couch and race to their crates. In no way do they dislike their crates, they're cushy, warm and snuggly and they sleep in them at night too.

Thanks for putting it in different words. People who neglect dogs are going to do it anyway whether on a chain, kennel, or crate. It makes little difference where a dog is kept or how it is contained. That is why I asked what is the difference in chaining a dog and crating a dog.

I would also rather see a dog crated for 6 hours a day than put in a shelter or put to sleep. I would also rather see a dog chained for 6 hours rather than put in a shelter and put to sleep.

I aslo agree the dog would rather be crated or chained rather than loose his family/being killed.

I just cannot see the difference in chaining a dog and crating a dog.

I heard about that on the new a while ago...great idea!

There's a lot more danger to chaining than to crating.

Strangulation hazards, being stolen, being attacked, etc, are all risks in being on a chain, even for a few minutes out of supervision.

When a crate is used PROPERLY, it's a million times safer than being chained outside.

This law is a good idea, and should be enforced everywhere, IMHO.

I know many people who chain their dog and some who have cable runs. When they have the dogs off of the chains and cable runs they can do the same as you do with the crates. They tell the dog it is time to go home and the dog will return to the cable run or chain.

Chaining or cable runs give the dog more freedom than the crate. I personally will not use chains, cable runs, or crates.
Dogs can be trained to either one of the three. Each one can be used safely.

I can see when chaining is outlawed there will be some dogs that will be turned loose or given up to the pound.

The same can be said about chains and cable runs. When properly used they are safe.

What is properly, for a chain?
You tie the dog out, and go.

Unless you are sitting with your dog every minute it's there, you cannot guarentee it will not break the tether, or become a victim to another animal. Even BIRDS, of all animals, can cause injuries. This is one reason I stopped chaining dogs years and years ago.

The same could be said with crates. What is properly about a crate, you stuff the dog in it and go.

Unless you are setting with your dog every minute it is in the crate, you cannot guarantee it will not break out of the crate, get caught in the crate, become a victim of house fires, even children can tease and torture the dog who is trapped inside of the crate.

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Here are a lot of incidents involving chained dog related fatalities:

The attack occurred in the 300 block of Rio Grande Avenue, near Santa Fe Avenue. The male pit bull was shot dead after it charged a deputy who responded to the scene, authorities said.

The girl lives across the street from the people who owned the dog.

As she and a number of children played in front of the neighbor's home about 1 p.m. Sunday, the dog was chained to a nearby fence. The dog's owner, Daniel Arias, and the girl's father also were at the home.
http://www.modbee.com/local/story/13157619p-13802519c.html

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Great Dane Attack Kills Girl

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HonoluluAdvisor.com, Hawaii
By Jan TenBruggencate

February 24, 2004, MOLOA'A, Kaua'i — A chained dog attacked and killed 17-month-old Truston Heart Liddle as he played Saturday near where his parents and grandparents were working on a farm plot.


The family was still in shock yesterday. "We're pretty confused," said noted surfboard shaper Greg Liddle of Kapa'a, the child's grandfather. The child evidently wandered away from where the family was doing farm work at about 5 p.m., and onto a neighboring farm lot, where several dogs were chained or caged. The young boy apparently got too close to a chained, 40-pound, mixed-breed male dog, which bit him repeatedly around the face and upper body.

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From the CDC website:

In January 1995, a 2-year-old boy in South Dakota wandered into a neighbor's yard, where he was attacked and killed by two chained wolf-German shepherd hybrids.

During 1995-1996, 22% of all dog bite related fatalities were caused by chained or leashed dogs.

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwR/preview/mmwrhtml/00047723.htm

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According to another website, the following statistics were noted:

Fatal Dog attacks from 1994-99
Listing of Date, Number & Breed of Dogs, State & Contributory Factor

Jul. 1994 (1) Sib.Husky AK Chained dog
Jan. 1995 (1) Wolf dog SD Chained dog
Jan. 1995 (1) Sib. Husky AK Chained dog
Apr. 1995 (1) Mixed breed KS Chained dog
May 1995 (1) Rottweiler FL Chained dog
Jun. 1996 (1) Rottweiler MA Chained dog
Jul. 1996 (1) Rottweiler MO Chained dog
Aug. 1996 (1) Husky-type AK Chained dog
Nov. 1996 (2) Husky & Chow OH Chained dogs
Mar. 1997 (1) Labrador X SD Chained dog
Jun. 1997 (1) Sled dog AK Chained dog
Mar. 1998 (1) Rottweiler TN Chained dog
Feb. 1999 (1) Chow X OR Chained dog
Apr. 1999 (1) Husky NC Chained dog
May 1999 (1) Sled dog AK Chained dog
Aug. 1999 (1) SharPei/Chow X TX Chained dog
Aug. 1999 (1) Bulldog X TN Chained dog
Oct. 1999 (1) Rottweiler AR Chained dog

From 2001-2003

Jun. 2001 (1) Pit Bull UT Chained, breeding guard dog
Jun. 2001 (1) Pit bull HI Chained dog
Jul. 2001 (1) Pit bull GA Chained dog
Aug. 2001 (1) Rottweiler IL Chained dog broke loose
Oct. 2001 (1) Rottweiler WY Chained, emaciated dog
Apr. 2002 (1) Am Staff DE Chained dog
Jun. 2002 (1) Wolf dog KY Chained dog
Aug. 2002 (1) Pit bull IA Chained dog
Oct. 2002 (2) Mixed breeds GA Chained dogs
Nov. 2002 (1) Mixed breed MO Chained dog
Dec. 2002 (1) German Shep NC Chained, starving dog

Info provided by: National Canine Research Foundation
http://ncrf2004.tripod.com

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So, it happens. Alot. I thought people may be interested in seeing just how often it happens.

I'm all for the new legislation against chaining dogs.

If used PROPERLY, the dog is not just stuffed in and left behind.
There shouldn't be risks of any housefires, and if your dog is locked in the house left to roam free, there's not much difference in that.
There are heavily build crates, and crates with tight wires, so that nothing an get out, and nothing can get snagged.

Highly unlikely that a responsible person, who is using a crate properly, is letting any strange children come in their homes, and allowing them to poke at their crated dog, either. Let alone their own children.


So, I still see no reason to think a chain is any better. Especially since the risks are DEATH.

If the chain or cable run is used properly it is safe also.
I don't think the chain or cable run is any better than a crate, nor any worse.
I just can't understand why one would be considered so bad and the other good. Both are used to contain the dog and both are safe if used properly. A dog should be trained before either one is used. Neither is really good for the dog.

Actually, the crate is especially good FOR training the dog.
The chain has no beneficial values.
And those cases that Shadow posted a few posts back are more than enough to show the danger in chaining a dog.

There are too many other, BETTER, methods to containing a dog SAFELY. If an owner is not willing to meet with that, then they should not own the dog to begin with.

I think the comparison between a crate and den as I already pointed out is a very poor one. It is like comparing your house to a locked jail cell. It doesn't matter what the conditions are outside a den, I doubt if anyone has a room where the crate is situated that is -40c. The bottom line is that with a den, the dog is free to go in and out as it pleases, and in a crate it is locked up until it is let out. I have talked to people that crate their dogs while they are at work and factor in commuting time and bad traffic driving home and some last minute overtime the dog could be in the crate for 9 or more hours, and that is cruel treatment for the dog in my opinion. I see no difference in chaining a dog and crating it other than the dog is safe from other dogs and the elements when crated.

How do you folks feel about tie outs for like 15 or 20 minutes? I have resorted to this lately because my yard is inundated with squirrels right now and it drives Tosca crazy. She's not that smart about them and I am afraid she will get hurt. They thumb their noses at her from atop the fence and in the trees, and on the workshop and garage roofs and she's horse when she gets back in from all the yelling if she's loose. I do not do this in lieu of walking though. It's just for those short jaunts to the yard I give her several times a day until the damned squirrels find another place to frolic, soon I hope. I also do it if I smell that one of the local skunks has been by, because I am unable to see all of my land that she can access. Some days the squirrels seem to be gone and other days it's a squirrel convention out there. Is using a tieout this way also considered a bad thing to do? Thanks.

Really Panch, this is a crazy analogy. First "you tie the dog out and go" and "you stuff the dog in and go", come on now, even you can see the sway.//
Crates are much safer than tie outs, there's just no comparison.

Ollie's only in his HUGE crate if he can't go with me . When he sees me gather his toy , bone , and doggie cookie , he goes in on his own . When I get home , he's always lying down and happy .

Do you lock the door to his crate when you leave, and if so, why?

Please read all of the posts. I was just repeating what another poster had said. They stated "you tie the dog out and go" I just repeated what they said then added the same thing about the crate.

People who would rather use a crate and do so will think they are better than chains and cable runs. People who use chains and cable runs will think they are better than crates. I do not use either. I don't think one is better than the other. I don't think one is worse than the other. I cannot understand why a person will use one and condem those who use the other. Both are safe if used right, both are neglectful and cruel if used wrong.

I think both can be used in the right way. I think both can be used wrong. If I chose to use one I would not complain about those who chose to use the other.

I know that this question was for Grammy but I have to answer for myself and say that yes, of course the door is locked. It's locked for safety. Why use a crate instead of a dog bed if you're not using it for safety and confinement?

I have 5 dogs Bobsk8. One is 85 lbs. and the other 3 are under 10 lbs. There is no way that I would leave a 1.3 lb. dog and a 15 year old (3 lb.) dog who stumbles and falls often, out and running around while I'm away. The other 2 brussels were crate trained due to Sep. Anx. issues that they had when they arrived and as a trainer I KNOW that their crate training has made them feel much more secure.

Many dog with Sep. Anx. issues are much safer and much happier in a crate due to the stressful pacing and distructive behavior that accompanies that particular problem.

I have 4 crates but usually allow my dogs to double up (their choice) unless I'm providing a kong treat in which case they are seperated. I have never left a dog in a crate for more than 3 hours at a time during the daytime hours. At night time, my dogs file into their crates as they get tired...their choice entirely. Actually, if the door to Amos's crate is closed when he wants to get in, he'll open it, jump in and close it behind him.

I don't know how else to say it other than that you are wrong about this being unkind or cruel. My dogs LOVE their crates. I'm finding the arguements against proper crating just silly. They ARE safe, they ARE NOT unkind, when used properly they're a great way to ensure safety AND COMFORT for your dog while your away for short periods.

Any method of confinement, crating, outdoor dog run, tie outs....all of them can be abused but no one is suggesting that crating for long periods is a good thing.

Everything you said about crates others can say about chains and cable runs.