lymes disease

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#1
I havnt been very active in a while. with buying a house, moving , jobs ect ect life gets ahead of you.

Well poor Solo has been disgnosed with it. Both dogs have always been on preventitave, but deer ticks are not part of the preventitive. I have seen zero signs such as limping and what not. fatigue and apetite are the closest to signs. Solo has always been a finicky eater (I lucked out with the most dainty beagle lol) hes always been a lazy dog indoors, prefers sleeping on the couch all day, always has. and a few days a week he has always ignored breakfast since he would rather sleep on the couch. So since these 2 signs have been so normal for us. I never even thought of the chance of lymes. I am taking him in today for more tests. so I dont know if he just got it, or if its been awhile and has done any damage. Im worried about him, he is only 3.5 years old. I thought for sure when the vet called to say there was bad news, that it would be for 11 year old blaze.

Please send good Solo vibes.
 

Elrohwen

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#2
Healthy vibes!

The issue with Lyme is that lots and lots of dogs will test positive for it who never have symptoms. It's not as easy as running a test and knowing the dog has it. There are also different tests that are more or less accurate - they can often only tell you if your dog was exposed, not if he is actively infected.

Personally, I wouldn't treat a dog for Lyme who didn't have any outward symptoms. Even when you do see symptoms Lyme can be a red herring. My dog started limping, tested positive for Lyme, so we treated. A few months later he was limping again, but didn't have an elevated temp or swollen glands, but we treated again anyway. If he limped again after the second treatment, my vet and I were planning to look into other causes because it was likely not related to Lyme no matter what the tests said. It's a tricky thing.

I do have his urine tested yearly at his exams to make sure he isn't shedding proteins that could indicate kidney damage from Lyme. Otherwise I don't worry about it too much. It's a fact of life in the north east.
 

JacksonsMom

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Healthy vibes!

The issue with Lyme is that lots and lots of dogs will test positive for it who never have symptoms. It's not as easy as running a test and knowing the dog has it. There are also different tests that are more or less accurate - they can often only tell you if your dog was exposed, not if he is actively infected.

Personally, I wouldn't treat a dog for Lyme who didn't have any outward symptoms. Even when you do see symptoms Lyme can be a red herring. My dog started limping, tested positive for Lyme, so we treated. A few months later he was limping again, but didn't have an elevated temp or swollen glands, but we treated again anyway. If he limped again after the second treatment, my vet and I were planning to look into other causes because it was likely not related to Lyme no matter what the tests said. It's a tricky thing.

I do have his urine tested yearly at his exams to make sure he isn't shedding proteins that could indicate kidney damage from Lyme. Otherwise I don't worry about it too much. It's a fact of life in the north east.
^ Yeah this.

Jackson was completely holding up his back leg, stiff, when he was around 1 year old. Took him to the vet for x-rays, everything cleared. Blood test showed positive for lymes. So we treated with a round of doxycycline and a few days of pain meds and he was all good. Every year since then, his lyme test comes back negative. So no idea. I had heard once you have it, you have it, so I'm expecting one year for his lyme test to come back positive again. But he doesn't have any symptoms or anything.
 
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#6
He asked if I wanted them checked. And since I do pull ticks off them every year I figured why not get them checked. We were already in office and it was a cheap test. I won't know to much more unti l I bring him back in tonight.
 

Southpaw

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#8
A heartworm/lyme test should be run on a dog every year IMO. Plus they usually won't give you heartworm meds if you don't.
You don't have to do a tick disease test. My dogs have never been tested. We just do HW.


I wouldn't be overly concerned without knowing if this is an active infection, but good vibes!
 

DJEtzel

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#9
I don't HW test every year, I have never tested for Lyme.

that said, my fiancé's dog tested positive last year, they did some doxy, thought she was acting fine, now are realizing she still has it and is doing some holistic treatment with great results! She was slowing down in agility and now she is back to her old self! So there are definitely options and dogs can definitely recover, even if it's a difficult recover. :)

Vibes!!
 

GoingNowhere

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Lyme is a scary disease. Boo tested positive, but has not been symptomatic since we treated her with doxy. My old dog also had Lyme disease (and Erlichiosis and Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever) - and would chronically be symptomatic.

For Belle, it manifested itself in stiff, achy joints. She would limp, but not in an acute "this foot hurts" kind of way, but rather in a way that made her seem arthritic and much older than her years. Treatment worked, but she needed recurring treatment with every new batch of symptoms.

I also have family who has suffered with chronic Lyme. My brother had it and has not been symptomatic since treatment, my dad spotted the bullseye rash and is undergoing treatment, and several of my aunts, uncles, and cousins has dealt with or are still dealing with the disease. It used to be a big issue that (human) doctors and insurance companies didn't want to recognize that Lyme could be chronic and so would refuse treatment to patients with recurring symptoms. It has caused some of my relatives serious neurological issues as well as physical.

One big issue with borelia burgdorferi (the bacteria that causes Lyme disease) is that it has 3 distinct forms that researchers know of and it able to transition in and out of these forms to "hide" from stressors.


I've pulled excerpts from a paper that I wrote for a microbio class in college. The words are copied and pasted from my paper, although I've pulled out sections and taken out citations for ease of reading. It's a pretty interesting, albeit very scary little organism.


"The most commonly referenced form is that of a spirochete with rotating flagella on either end. These 7-11 periplasmic flagella have coordinated rotation in opposite directions, creating a serpentine-like motion that allows this organism to drill itself into tissue. Because of the location of the flagella, B. burgdorferi is able to “hide†the flagella when needed in order to prevent its detection by the host. The cell wall of the spirochete form of B. burgdorferi stains gram negative although the organism is able to change into various forms including a cell wall deficient form to evade destruction by its host’s immune system. The cell wall deficient form, also known as the ‘L Form’ allows the bacteria to better “hide†from an active immune system. This form of the bacteria tends to increase the longer the bacterium is inside its host. The third form of B. burgdorferi is known as the cyst form. This form of the bacteria is a ‘dormant’ form of the bacteria in which many organisms clump together and surround themselves with a thicker membrane. This form of the organism is particularly useful for lying dormant inside the host while avoiding destruction (Table 1). In one study, when the spirochete form of cultured B. burgdorferi were transferred to distilled water, 95% of the bacteria converted themselves into cysts within 1 minute. When placed back into a growth medium, the cysts eventually began to regrow as spirochetes demonstrating that the cyst form of the bacteria may be utilized under stressful conditions.

The outer membrane of the organism contains several proteins called Osps. These proteins interact with the tissue of the host organism, whether that is the tick or mammal. They adjust via up or down regulation depending upon the current host for the organism. One protein, referred to as OspA, assists in the attachment of the spirochete to the gut of a tick that has yet to feed. During feeding, down-regulation of OspA is thought to allow the bacteria to then detach itself from the tick’s gut. Other proteins, such as OspC on the outer membrane of B. burgdorferi upregulate as the tick feeds. OspC is thought to play a role in assisting the movement of the spirochete from the gut of the tick to the salivary glands.

Along with assisting in the transmission of the bacterium, some proteins embedded in the outer membrane of B. burgdorferi fight against the immune response of the host animal, some allow for the bacteria to colonize, and some help the bacterium to adapt to its environmental surroundings. For example, five different proteins (CRASP 1-5) act to repress the immune system of the host by binding to the complement activation centers. Without the ability to “turn on†the immune response, the host is less able to fight the bacteria. B. burgdorferi also employs a tactic of “hiding†from the host organism’s immune response system by using their ability of motility to bind to fibrocytes within the host and implant themselves in intussusceptions, or fold-like areas formed during the creation of new cell-wall material, on the cell’s surface. Likewise, many other proteins exist within the membrane of B. burgdorferi to contribute to its survival in varying environments."
 
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#11
I will test every year. I know too many dogs getting almost fatally ill from Lyme and Anaplasmosis, and IMO, its not worth the risk of ignoring the testing/treatment if needed. Carma has Lyme and Wuma and Aiden have Anaplasmosis. They're all being treated because I'd rather treat than risk their health with an untreated infection. It's also hard for me to tell if they're even symptomatic or not because they're nuts 98% of the time, so defining symptoms when combined with their drive level is tough.
 

BostonBanker

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#12
I test every year with my two, and will continue to do so for my peace of mind. I have never once found a deer tick on either one, which leads me to believe we are either very lucky or I haven't figured out how to spot them yet.

My horse did pick up Lyme about 8 or 10 years ago; despite two very aggressive rounds of antibiotics, we could not get his numbers to drop. The vet finally told me to wait for symptoms to resurface and we would treat based on symptoms, not the numbers. He has never once shown any signs of it again.
 

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