Update on the teacher beating a student story...
- Thread starter ACooper
- Start date
No, i don't think violence is ever "OK." There might be times where it is necessary to defend yourself, you family, your animals, or you property, but "necessary" and "OK" are two different things in my mind. I have close family that are special forces and have spent a lot of time in the middle east, and I'd bet they'd be hard pressed to tell you that what they've had to do is just a-ok, they do it because it's necessary to protect themselves, their fellow soldiers, and their country.
Last month Jack was attacked in the dog park and luckily the dog's owners were able to get him off, but if I'd had to I would have pulled him off, kicked him off, etc to save Jack. I wouldn't have been happy about it, I wouldn't have thought it was "OK" but I wouldn't have thought it was necessary to keep my dog from being eaten. I can tell you that as freaked out as I was I wouldn't have dragged the fleeing dog back by it's tail and continued to kick it.
If that student jumped the teacher or another student and she physically restrained him (which she was easily big enough in comparison to do) that would be a different story, but that was not what happened here.
Last month Jack was attacked in the dog park and luckily the dog's owners were able to get him off, but if I'd had to I would have pulled him off, kicked him off, etc to save Jack. I wouldn't have been happy about it, I wouldn't have thought it was "OK" but I wouldn't have thought it was necessary to keep my dog from being eaten. I can tell you that as freaked out as I was I wouldn't have dragged the fleeing dog back by it's tail and continued to kick it.
If that student jumped the teacher or another student and she physically restrained him (which she was easily big enough in comparison to do) that would be a different story, but that was not what happened here.
Good, because I hope that too 
If you can find justification in her continued beating of that CHILD once the child had completely surrendered, well then you are a better advocate FOR her than she is for herself. Congratulations, I think you might have earned social worker status, or criminal attorney at the very least
After all, SHE admitted she was wrong and apologized, SHE was there, SHE knows the complete and total story. She "plead guilty" so to speak and it wasn't to keep her job, she already lost that, and it isn't going to stop the mother from filing charges if she wants either......
If you can find justification in her continued beating of that CHILD once the child had completely surrendered, well then you are a better advocate FOR her than she is for herself. Congratulations, I think you might have earned social worker status, or criminal attorney at the very least
After all, SHE admitted she was wrong and apologized, SHE was there, SHE knows the complete and total story. She "plead guilty" so to speak and it wasn't to keep her job, she already lost that, and it isn't going to stop the mother from filing charges if she wants either......
I am not saying that it is OK to beat a kid past the point of submission. I am saying that I can understand the adrenaline, anger and lack of control in a volatile situation. I can have forgiveness for that. We all have a boiling point and her was reached obviously. We dont know what put her there. If she was defending a student, that is something close to my heart and my boiling point for that crap is very low, I can relate. If she did it because he didn't have a #2 pencil with him I would be on board with you.
And you could be a Salem witch hunter
I am not saying that it is OK to beat a kid past the point of submission. I am saying that I can understand the adrenaline, anger and lack of control in a volatile situation. I can have forgiveness for that. We all have a boiling point and her was reached obviously. We dont know what put her there. If she was defending a student, that is something close to my heart and my boiling point for that crap is very low, I can relate. If she did it because he didn't have a #2 pencil with him I would be on board with you.
I am not saying that it is OK to beat a kid past the point of submission. I am saying that I can understand the adrenaline, anger and lack of control in a volatile situation. I can have forgiveness for that. We all have a boiling point and her was reached obviously. We dont know what put her there. If she was defending a student, that is something close to my heart and my boiling point for that crap is very low, I can relate. If she did it because he didn't have a #2 pencil with him I would be on board with you.
And nobody is saying (or at least I am not saying) she doesn't deserve forgiveness. Everyone deserves forgiveness if they want it, that doesn't mean she shouldn't face the music of her actions. If she is unstable, she needs help, if it was just an instance of (as you say) adrenaline rush and loss of control, then she still needs to face up to it.
If my hands were tied and I was unable to press criminal charges (and that were my child) you can bet I'd have a little 'loss of control' myownself
After seeing the video, interviewing the children present, and the teachers own apology and admission .........that mother would be crazy NOT to file charges and carry through to the end. JMO of course. I'll be interested to know what comes of it and I'm going to try and keep informed to see if she actually does.
I hope she doesn't 'settle' for money out of court without the teacher getting punished...........the school isn't to blame IMO, the teacher should be held accountable.
I hope she doesn't 'settle' for money out of court without the teacher getting punished...........the school isn't to blame IMO, the teacher should be held accountable.
If my hands were tied and I was unable to press criminal charges (and that were my child) you can bet I'd have a little 'loss of control' myownself
But see, I wouldn't be asking for any special treatment, wouldn't be asking for anyone to 'speak up for me' If that happened I would most likely be ARRESTED just as this teacher needs to be. I would have made my choice and then need to face up to it accordingly. Any facts that are relevant to the case could/would come out in court. Done.
I haven't tried and convicted her, because as you say, we DON'T know all the details..........what I am saying, what I've said from the start, she needs to be arrested. She needs to be charged with assault and not just lose her job. Period. If you were on that video, or me, or any other joe schmo beating a child......even OUR OWN child, we'd have criminal charges not just lose our job. The mere fact she was IN CHARGE of other people's children makes it that much worse IMO.
I haven't tried and convicted her, because as you say, we DON'T know all the details..........what I am saying, what I've said from the start, she needs to be arrested. She needs to be charged with assault and not just lose her job. Period. If you were on that video, or me, or any other joe schmo beating a child......even OUR OWN child, we'd have criminal charges not just lose our job. The mere fact she was IN CHARGE of other people's children makes it that much worse IMO.
i have to agree w/ buckshot
pretty much everyone is passing judgement w/o knowing every detail. and yes as was covered in the other thread there are kids who are dangerous enough and disrespectful enough that an @$$ whipping (including hitting them while they're down) is the only thing they are going to respect. not all of them are in inner city schools, I know i wasn't far off from being that kind of kid and i went to mostly decent middle class schools.
sally
i got to call BS. i've whacked people who needed whacking and while it was necessary, i was also completely okay w/ it. if you can't be okay w/ it, if you're going to lose sleep and stress out over necessary violence, then military jobs that involve shooting people is not for you and you need to move on as quickly as possible. i don't want a weak heart like that around me when it's for real, because those are the people that hesitate and get others killed. i'm okay w/ that kind of discomfort making the decision to go to war (in fact i prefer it) but not behind the trigger and sitting on the gun beside me.
pretty much everyone is passing judgement w/o knowing every detail. and yes as was covered in the other thread there are kids who are dangerous enough and disrespectful enough that an @$$ whipping (including hitting them while they're down) is the only thing they are going to respect. not all of them are in inner city schools, I know i wasn't far off from being that kind of kid and i went to mostly decent middle class schools.
sally
i got to call BS. i've whacked people who needed whacking and while it was necessary, i was also completely okay w/ it. if you can't be okay w/ it, if you're going to lose sleep and stress out over necessary violence, then military jobs that involve shooting people is not for you and you need to move on as quickly as possible. i don't want a weak heart like that around me when it's for real, because those are the people that hesitate and get others killed. i'm okay w/ that kind of discomfort making the decision to go to war (in fact i prefer it) but not behind the trigger and sitting on the gun beside me.
At the end of the day, if you cannot handle being pushed to the absolute limit of human endurance, you shouldn't be a teacher. I hope she gets burned in court!
It is one thing to go in and restrain a child to gain control over the situation, it is another to beat a child who is not putting up ANY fight until he is bruised. She nearly pulled the poor kids pants off. That is downright humiliating.
It is one thing to go in and restrain a child to gain control over the situation, it is another to beat a child who is not putting up ANY fight until he is bruised. She nearly pulled the poor kids pants off. That is downright humiliating.
All the articles I'm finding on this say that she "snapped" after the kid started teasing a female student. Some of the articles say the other student was mentally disabled and some don't. Regardless, I don't find teasing a cause to do what she did. She was stalking him. That weird crab walk behavior at the beginning of the video really creeps me out. She was wrong, dead wrong, and there is no freaking way she should be teaching and she should be in jail for assault. Also, the family is suing the school and the teacher because several other teachers were standing around watching this happen according to the news reports.
Yeah, I think, or at least i hope that most people with military jobs involving shooting people can differentiate between a war zone and "civilian" life back home. Just because someone does not want to resort to violence or does not like being violent doesn't mean they are weak hearted. I really don't understand what that has to do with this thread?
I worked in a group home for severely challenged children. And yes, they can be nasty. We have had chairs thrown around, kids trying to stab each other with a fork that was smuggled back to the dorm area, and lots of verbal arguments. These children were one way or the other missing the link to communicate effectively with one another and it was our job to teach them how to. Now can you imagine the effect it would have if I would just beat on one kid because I lost my nerves? If you get burned out, and you feel like you are losing your cool, to be blunt, you look for another job.
I worked in a group home for severely challenged children. And yes, they can be nasty. We have had chairs thrown around, kids trying to stab each other with a fork that was smuggled back to the dorm area, and lots of verbal arguments. These children were one way or the other missing the link to communicate effectively with one another and it was our job to teach them how to. Now can you imagine the effect it would have if I would just beat on one kid because I lost my nerves? If you get burned out, and you feel like you are losing your cool, to be blunt, you look for another job.
What are you talking about? You need to read the posts more carefully. I'm not in the military, I have family that is. And no, I don't lose sleep or stress about what violence they may to over there--I want them to do their jobs and come home in one piece.
Either way, it takes much more strength to restrain yourself when you come face to face with some idiot that probably deserves to be "whacked" than it does to just haul off and hit him. ANYBODY can lash out--it takes no special skill or courage to take your anger to the level of physical violence.
If I HAD to use violence to defend me or mine, I would without a doubt, but I wouldn't be happy about it, and whether or not you feel that is "BS" really isn't my problem.
Either way, it takes much more strength to restrain yourself when you come face to face with some idiot that probably deserves to be "whacked" than it does to just haul off and hit him. ANYBODY can lash out--it takes no special skill or courage to take your anger to the level of physical violence.
If I HAD to use violence to defend me or mine, I would without a doubt, but I wouldn't be happy about it, and whether or not you feel that is "BS" really isn't my problem.
You cannot justify her behavior by wondering what led up to it. It doesn't matter. He gave up, regardless of what he was doing before hand. He was on the ground, in the fetal position and she was still advancing on him. He is a child. She is an adult. Would you ever tolerate anyone, let alone an authority figure, beating YOUR child to that extreme?
this kind of behaviour is ok ONLY when aboslulty nessicary, SELF DEFENCE...
even if the kid was beating another kid it would merit enough force to remove the child form the situation and call the authorities to deal with it...
it was 100% excessive force, the kid has his hands up and is corering in a corner while she stalks him, he tries to get away and she grabs him and drags him back by the leg to continue ASSAULTING him.
no matter what led up to it, it was absolulty beyond anything NEEDED.
im a big advocate of "fight back" if the situation requires you to fight back to protect yourself or someone you love, i say do it...
but this...this wasnt a fight, it wasnt a teacher using self defence, wasnt someone being beaten in return and simply continuing to whail because it was the only way to protect themselves.
this was an adult woman who took it upon herself to continue to beat a child despite him not fighting back trying to escape and sheilding himself.
this wasnt self defence, it wasnt defense of another student and quite frankly despite what led up to it, wasnt nessicary, she deserves everything comming to her and hopefully some kind of anger managment will be included in that.
even if the kid was beating another kid it would merit enough force to remove the child form the situation and call the authorities to deal with it...
it was 100% excessive force, the kid has his hands up and is corering in a corner while she stalks him, he tries to get away and she grabs him and drags him back by the leg to continue ASSAULTING him.
no matter what led up to it, it was absolulty beyond anything NEEDED.
im a big advocate of "fight back" if the situation requires you to fight back to protect yourself or someone you love, i say do it...
but this...this wasnt a fight, it wasnt a teacher using self defence, wasnt someone being beaten in return and simply continuing to whail because it was the only way to protect themselves.
this was an adult woman who took it upon herself to continue to beat a child despite him not fighting back trying to escape and sheilding himself.
this wasnt self defence, it wasnt defense of another student and quite frankly despite what led up to it, wasnt nessicary, she deserves everything comming to her and hopefully some kind of anger managment will be included in that.
If that boy was being beaten, my name is Sue and Johnny Cash is my dad. His pants were falling down because like every other kid out there these days, they wear pants that don't fit, hardly humiliating.
While the teacher looks to have overstepped some boundaries, you can not tell me there aren't instances where a teacher can't resort to physical acts against a student. I also don't believe it takes some yogi like powers over emotions and actions to NOT act in violence. I think most times it's because of just plain old fear. But since nobody likes to admit to fear they like to chalk it up to some high moral standing.
We'll never know the real story. it's much easier to demonize a teacher with a short video clip than to tell what really happened. I can see situations where a teacher might lose their cool, and contrary to the fantasy world it seems a lot of internet posters live in, these things can and do happen to EVERYONE every day. isn't there some saying about glass houses?
While the teacher looks to have overstepped some boundaries, you can not tell me there aren't instances where a teacher can't resort to physical acts against a student. I also don't believe it takes some yogi like powers over emotions and actions to NOT act in violence. I think most times it's because of just plain old fear. But since nobody likes to admit to fear they like to chalk it up to some high moral standing.
We'll never know the real story. it's much easier to demonize a teacher with a short video clip than to tell what really happened. I can see situations where a teacher might lose their cool, and contrary to the fantasy world it seems a lot of internet posters live in, these things can and do happen to EVERYONE every day. isn't there some saying about glass houses?
In guess we just have different definitions of being beaten. Watch some old riot footage from the 60's, those were beatings, this kid got a bit embarassed and caught a held back open handed backhand to an area that has a bone pretty close to the surface. Not hard to bruise, and hardly a beating.
I read one account that stated the student was "savagely beaten". Our quest to create drama will never end I guess. this was "news" story as well. When can we officially start to call this stuff what it is?
I read one account that stated the student was "savagely beaten". Our quest to create drama will never end I guess. this was "news" story as well. When can we officially start to call this stuff what it is?