prong collar

Brattina88

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#1
I can't believe I'm typing this... before I get started I wanted to add that I do not want this thread to turn into a "bash fest". Please & Thanks :)


I want your guys' opinions/experiences on a prong collar. I don't think I've ever used one, I really want some facts. I've read very biased opinions, that their cruel, etc or that EVERY dog should wear one... it was hard for me to read anything "in between"

For those that've been following Tucker's back "injury" (he has IVDD) he is going off of official crate rest this weekend. He has a follow up appt tomorrow (in which I am also going to ask about this if I get to go too, btw)

Our concern is walking on leash... he pulls, charges, and rams his body weight against the leash. He was making progress, but its been 6 full weeks since he's been able to go on a walk. We're so afraid he's going to re-injure himself by doing this, I'm even worried about getting him into the vet. He is THAT full-force, all of the time.
The vet said he could do short "potty" walks this last week - he is going to have to build up his endurance again. We went from our house to the mail box, he was jouncing, choking, and pulling SO bad he had to be carried back into the house, and he was hunching his back afterward so I know he was hurting himself. He's just excited.

A prong was suggested to me by a friend who's a vet tech. A flat collar, and (body) harnesses have been linked to spine &/or neck injuries, as well as head collars, chokes, etc. I don't think he should wear his harness, because it is right where his injury is.

He has worn an easy walk harness, but he's outsmarted it. He throws his chest into it, or flips a paw over it and continues to yank.
Any help is definitely appreciated!!

ETA - there was a harness that Breeze suggested in another thread, and its being shipped out..... but I'm very unsure. I think Kayla may strangle me if I straight out ask the vet without telling her first, but I want some chazzer thoughts first :)

Thanks!!
 

Dekka

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#2
You can get head halters that don't harm the neck (No twisting action) ie new trix

A prong collar could work. But it works because pulling with one is painful. He might not need more pain right now.

But if that ends up being your only option then its your only option.
 

PWCorgi

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#3
I'm not the biggest fan of prongs, but if it comes down to Tucker wearing a prong or injuring himself again I would definitely choose the prong. At least until he can get a reliable LLW. Some dogs will still pull in a prong as well, so that is something to think about.
 

Saeleofu

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#4
I personally would go with a prong. A halter is asking for trouble at this point. Prongs are an aversive, but are not painful. Try one on your own neck first if you want. Be sure to get ones that have blunt/rounded tips, otherwise you'll need the little rubber tips to cover sharp edges.

Also be sure to size it right not only in circumference but also size of prongs. I prefer smaller prongs when a dog is between sizes or for fine-tuning. If you're afraid the dog will break the smaller prongs, though, go the next size up. You can always add or take out links.
 

Brattina88

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#5
Thanks! I hadn't thought of the new trix, I like the idea of that better :)

:) I agree PW. Its just something I've been thinking about to keep him safe until we can train the LLW, which will be ASAP!
 

PlottMom

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#6
I use one with Abby if we're going to be around a lot of other dogs and I'm afraid their owners may not properly control them... we work A LOT with food and exercising commands just outside her threshold, and she does awesome, but as she's stronger than me I like the extra insurance.

I don't think they're cruel. I agree they work because they cause discomfort - but they cause discomfort WHEN they pull, and I've never had a dog try to pull against one. They know it's there, the light goes on, they behave and no one seems to be in any pain or even mildly uncomfortable when we're out walking. If it comes down to him injuring himself vs. not wanting to risk poking himself in the neck, I'd say the prong is the way to go :) Crate rest, IMO, is even LESS fun.
 

Baxter'smybaby

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#7
when Traveler was young (one-two years old) a prong collar was the only way I could walk her--she just pulled, and one time even dragged me across the road on my stomach! Use the prong the right way (dog takes notice when pulling too hard and eases up) and it can be a helpful tool. I tried the prong on my arm--it pinches--but I wouldn't call it painful.
 

Lizmo

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#8
I've used one with both my dogs before on occasion. Both stop immediatly with it on. (Lizzie is a *huge* puller, but she stopped and didn't pull again).

If it's used right (always loose unless they pull the leash), I don't think it's bad. They aren't in constant pain from the collar, it's fitted loosely so it's just like a heavy collar.

I would definitely give it a try with Tucker.
 

ACooper

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#9
I've used one with both my dogs before on occasion. Both stop immediatly with it on. (Lizzie is a *huge* puller, but she stopped and didn't pull again).

If it's used right (always loose unless they pull the leash), I don't think it's bad. They aren't in constant pain from the collar, it's fitted loosely so it's just like a heavy collar.

I would definitely give it a try with Tucker.
I don't think 'fitted loosely so it's like a heavy collar' is the proper way to use one. I am no expert, and I really don't mean to argue with you or anyone Liz, but that is NOT the way I was shown how to use it when we purchased Orson's.

I was told it should fit snuggly (not tight, but snug) and sort of high on the neck. So if that is NOT the right way (how I was shown) I would like to know, LOL :p

And I echo Bax.........when I tried it on my own arm it did indeed pinch, but I would not call it 'painful'.........just a subtle reminder NOT to pull.
 

colliewog

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#10
I used one briefly in Malcolm's (a collie) teenage years. I've recommended them to a few of my students. The key is that they are not long term, proper fit and usage is imperative and you cannot give corrections with it. It is a 'self-correction' tool and should be a stepping stone while you work on a negative behavior. (I hate seeing dogs pulling the owner around while wearing a poorly fitted prong - doing no good on a thick necked, thick headed dog ... just annoying him!)
 

drmom777

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#11
I used top use on on my pitty, Deuce. he loved the thing. He hated every form of harness I tried on him, but went into a frenzy of joy when he saw the prong because to him it meant outside. But desire to go out did not stop him from hiding at the sight of a headcollar.

I also tried it on myself, though i went all the way and put it around my neck. It wasn't bad at all, unless i pulled it quite tight.

I can't use anything on Uncle Fred that pulls on his neck because of his scars. Even a regular collar will cut him and make him bleed if it hits there, so he wears a harness to be on leash.
 

Lizmo

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#12
I don't think 'fitted loosely so it's like a heavy collar' is the proper way to use one. I am no expert, and I really don't mean to argue with you or anyone Liz, but that is NOT the way I was shown how to use it when we purchased Orson's.

I was told it should fit snuggly (not tight, but snug) and sort of high on the neck. So if that is NOT the right way (how I was shown) I would like to know, LOL :p
I could be doing it wrong, too. But it's the way it's worked for my dogs. lol

If it's fitted snuggly on the neck, would it not be constantly applying some pressure to the neck with the prongs?
 

sillysally

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#13
I used one on Jack on occasion. I fit it snuggly (not too tight and not too loose) above his flat collar but not all the way up on his neck. We actually started using it after he soundly rejected head halters and even the Easy Walk.
 

xpaeanx

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#14
ACoop, it should fit snuggly and high on the neck. You should also have a backup collar when using one.

I don't think prongs are inherintly evil, but I also don't think they're the solution to everything.

In your case, you're very limited. So, if you do go prong, put it on Tucker in the house and give him some time to figure out how it works before walking him on it. You certainly don't want him lunging full force into it bc he has no idea what it does and then getting a very unpleasant surprise.
 

lizzybeth727

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#15
You can get head halters that don't harm the neck (No twisting action) ie new trix

A prong collar could work. But it works because pulling with one is painful. He might not need more pain right now.

But if that ends up being your only option then its your only option.
basically sums up how I feel about the situation as well. (Thanks for the reminder about Newtrix, Dekka, I saw those demoed once and could NOT remember the name of them. :))

The key is that they are not long term, proper fit and usage is imperative and you cannot give corrections with it. It is a 'self-correction' tool and should be a stepping stone while you work on a negative behavior.
I agree with this too. IMO anyone who puts a training collar/harness on their dog should do so with the intention that eventually they will not need it.... It should be a training tool, not the dog's usual wardrobe. JMO.
 

elegy

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#16
If it's fitted snuggly on the neck, would it not be constantly applying some pressure to the neck with the prongs?
think of something like the waistband of your pants. fitted snugly but not digging in. that's what you want. if it's gapping or hanging, then you *are* risking injury.
 

hirsh1

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#17
I haven't used one myself, but have done some research on them. I believe it should be fitted so that you can get the tip of your finger between the prong and the dog's neck. The collar is made to imitate the alpha dog of the pack correcting one of the omega dogs. It is supposed to just pinch the neck, not dig into it. One way you might try to stop the pulling, if you can, is take your dog to an area where there is a fair amount of space. Start walking with your dog and as soon as the dog starts to pull, change direction. You will have to keep doing this for 5 - 10 minutes. It may take a few sessions to work, but eventually your dog will give you her attention because she doesn't know which way you're going to go. This method would work well using a prong collar.
 

Baxter'smybaby

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#18
I haven't used one myself, but have done some research on them. I believe it should be fitted so that you can get the tip of your finger between the prong and the dog's neck. The collar is made to imitate the alpha dog of the pack correcting one of the omega dogs. It is supposed to just pinch the neck, not dig into it. One way you might try to stop the pulling, if you can, is take your dog to an area where there is a fair amount of space. Start walking with your dog and as soon as the dog starts to pull, change direction. You will have to keep doing this for 5 - 10 minutes. It may take a few sessions to work, but eventually your dog will give you her attention because she doesn't know which way you're going to go. This method would work well using a prong collar.
this is for a dog who is coming off of restricted activity level--so the training info. is really needed at this point. Hopefully the prong collar would help Tucker to take things easy to start off with.
And hi--check out the training forum for lots of info.
 

Laurelin

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#19
I agree with Dekka. Not my ideal choice but if it's your only option, it's your only option. You gotta do what's best for Tucker. I would be kind of wary about putting something meant to cause discomfort or pain (however you want to dance around that) on a dog that is already hurting. It's a tough call imo.
 

stardogs

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#20
I have about 2% of my students wearing them. The main reasons are 1. the dog can't tolerate a front lead or head halter and must be walked (vs exercising off lead then walks only for training) and 2. the dog is incredibly strong and pulls through a harness and head halter. Your situation would fit both given his health and history.

My students are all instructed to find rounded tipped collars of midweight and I fit them so they sit in the middle of the dog's neck without slipping down. The students never issue corrections on them, only allowing the dog to self correct.

Once the dog is walking nicely without challenging the prong, I then have the students start weaning off the collar. Step one is turning the collar inside out so it still has the same action but no pinching. Once the dog is walking nicely without challenging the inside out collar, I have the student switch to a cloth martingale for leash attachment but leave the prong on, but "dead". When the dog and owner are ready, then the prong can come off completely.
 

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