New puppy pics...cute alert. :)

I don't think MsB's response to the "have you worked with her?" question was meant to come accross as rude....I think she is just frustrated because she HAS worked with this bitch. And I really don't think she is here to plug her site...after all what would she be trying to "plug"? The puppies are already spoken for so it's not to sell puppies....she did have an adult to place but she has already been spoken for. I think that MsB is just here to share her beautiful puppies with everyone, she just wants people to enjoy them, maybe talk about them/the breed with people, and maybe start up some great conversations with everyone. I truly think she was just trying to be friendly, I don't see anything wrong with that.....

I have to say...gorgeous Pap!!!!

then answer the question in the affirmative and move on... her response was rude and meant to be... so I can play her game and be rude as well.

I don't think it was as much rude as it was defensive. Read into it what you will.....you have to remember that everyday responsible breeders are put throught the ringer because of the behaviors and practices of BYB and puppymillers. When most people come across a "breeder" they automatically behave as if that "breeder" is a bad one...guilty until proven innocent........and in turn a good majority of responsible breeders are defensive of the questions thrown at them concerning their dogs. It's a two way street and while it's good to weed out the bad breeder's that may post with alterior motives, there has to be a civility when a responsible breeder shows up just to show pictures of her puppies and is truthful when it comes to hard questions about her own dogs. She has been truthful and forthcoming when she really didn't have to be, that has to count for something.....

I see what your saying but I didnt think asking a question about whether/what she had done with this dog for her behavioral "issue" had any bearing on her breeding practices... but in any event, I dont want to argue with you about it because you werent the one who answered the question (rudely or defensively) in the first place. Instead I would prefer you post more yourself in other areas and let us get to see pics of your dogs because if your avatar is any indication they are super cute!

Well thanks Poodlemommy! If I can figure out how to get some pics on here I will. I want to change my siggy pics at least.......

I don't want to get in any kind of fight, so here are the cliff notes of my opinions

1. I can agree with rehoming a dog who would do better as an only dog, and I know many pems just do better as only dogs. When Frodo comes out here I doubt I will get another dog while he's around, I'm sure I COULD bring in another dog, but the more I talk to CP and how he interacts with her crew the more I think he would live a BETTER life as a solo pup.

2. I disagree with breeding towards softer temperaments in pems. They aren't a companion breed, they are meant to be rough and tumble and have that little extra zing to their temperaments. There are many other breeds that you could choose from if you want a softer dog, no need to alter an existing breed. Why alter perfection?

3. You're puppies are adorable

:hail:

I don't see where this breeder was "put through the ringer". Maybe I missed it. I saw questions asked. Questions should be asked. If a breeder can't or won't answer questions, that's a red flag IMO. Many of us aren't the type to simply ooooh and aaaah over cute puppies without caring where they came from. I've seen many threads get really ugly. This wasn't one of them. The ugliness has been in the last couple of pages of various people referring to the thread as a "witch hunt", which it absolutely has not been.

I think wary is a very different thing then scared. Wary, as in not immediately trusting of strangers, not SCARED of them.

I agree with this.

In my experience, most BCs prefer to keep their space until they decide otherwise.

I never said she was put through the ringer here, it is a fact that most breeders are put through the ringer by people they come into contact with on a daily basis. I know because I deal with it daily. I am a professional dog groomer that works in a upscale "mom and pop" pet store and 70% of the clientel there are dogs that are rescued. Most of them come in preaching about rescue instead of buying from a breeder, so on and so forth, and I sit back and listen everyday. Alot of them realize that I am reputable and breed on a small scale and others don't agree with breeding at all. I listen to them voice their concern and that is OK. They don't hear that I do rescue also. There is no changing these people's opinions so I sit and listen to their sometimes hostile voices. It gets kinda annoying to listen to this all the time when I do the right thing in the breeds I am in. So, I'm not saying the "ringer" is here only....

As for the way the questions were thrown at her, I think it could have been done in a different way. If you read some of the posts, it did seem a bit harsh. No, you shouldn't have to tip toe around people but you also shouldn't bombard someone for just showing puppy pictures and offering up their website. JMO...not that it matters!

Edited for spelling errors...it's early!

Tucker and Iheartgonzo, do you guys have any books or breed standards (other than the AKC) that state this? I'd very much like to have a look.

Poodle Mommy.. You know I like ya right? lol Your one of my favs here..

BUT... I dont understand why YOU dont understand why the OP came of as Pretty defensive.. Which BTW- I dont see her posts as too bad Considering the type of thread it is.

Your question was not the only question posed at the time.. And having people seem to jump on you without all the info and sounding as they are accusing you or something can make people defensive..She is a human ya know.. lol.. Coming back to those questions, Yes I can see where she would get defensive.. Who WOULDNT? And IMO she handled herself pretty well.. Compared to MOST of the breeders we deal with on the board..

You seem to be VERY worked up over this thread.. She seems to be a very good breeder but your still a little snarky

Pardon me, but I dont understand how you can really do a whole lot of judging over breeders. You bought 2 dogs from a BYB. Knowing full well they were a BYB. I know you said they were nice and all, but even if this woman was a BYB, she may have the Same intentions as your dogs breeder.. JUst something that is confusing me a little and I cannot really word what Im trying to say quite right.. lol..

Thank you. And, I can see clearly now. Thinks the HSUS does some "good" but owns dogs and doesn't understand their agenda, and thinks all breeders are evil and horrid BYB unless they meet her scrutiny (everyone else is bowing down to them)...yet bought her dogs (obviously, IMO, not well bred if they are the dogs in her sig) from a BYB whom she was told was a BYB. That's awesome. I had already decided I was not going to let this person bother me as it was obvious she was not someone I thought mattered, but this seals the deal...I'm not a fan of hypocrites.

My dogs are not BYB dogs. I am not a dog BYB. Most of you probably already "get it" just from my few posts and looking at my website and webcam. I am 40 years old and been involved in dog shows and the "world of dogs" by way of mentors and kennel clubs, for 30-ish years. I also owned my own grooming shop for a few years and have a degree in veterinary technology and am licensed as "inactive veterinary technician"...thats just a fancy word for "stay at home mom".

BUT, I do have a confession. I do BYB birds. Cockatiels. I am a BYB of cockatiels. Sure, I show them once or twice a year...(seriously!) and sure, mine have great bloodlines and champion pedigrees (isnt this eerily familiar?), and Im even buying a champion bird this month!! But, I still breed mostly pets, sell them as pets, and do not alter them nor do I require they not breed them. NOW you have a reason to snark at me, if you like....

opcorn:

MsB

1. your ALWAYS starting trouble with me, so your disclaimer is kind of a joke.

2. YOU have no idea where my dogs came from.

3. I said NOTHING about this OP's breeding practices, at all ONCE.

Panda fits the female corgi personality

Well I don't know if I can talk to you.. BYB of birds.

Though seriously... is there a bird over population problem? Are byb birds less healthy etc. And its not like cockatiels are 'working' birds so is it wrong to breed them for pet qualities. (like toy breeds)

hmmmmmmm lol.

Thank you very much! I am quite partial to her. :lol-sign:

You dont know anything about me, neither does babymomma. If you dont like my posts, there is an ignore button. However, dont put words in my mouth because there are plenty of breeders here whom I respect... I asked you a question that would fall under training if anything and you flipped out, it had nothing to do with breeding... you still have not answered why you would flip out over a question like that but you keep running your mouth about other things. And Wow, 40? thats a little old to be acting like you are "well her dogs are ugly... haha I told her"

LOL LOL.

Well, lets see. I am very strict with my DOG morals and ethics...so I guess part of me has to make fun of my different feelings towards producing birds as pets.

Honestly, I would say yes there is probably a bird overpopulation problem to some extent...ie, there are bird rescues. Birds are just usually "taken" differently than dogs to some extent, I guess. I have had dog BYB (more hypocrites) try to slam me for my BYBB (backyard bird breeding) and I just prefer to poke fun at myself because everything "they" say to market their dogs (champion pedigrees! Champion lines! Champion sired! We show!) are things I can say (and not take too seriously) about my birds. To me, its apples and oranges, but I guess to not be a hypocrite myself, I like to come right out and say "hey, I breed pet birds...I try to breed nice quality and temperaments, but really...they are pets from show stock that I may or may not show." I do try to breed to the NCS (national cockatiel society) illustrated and written standard, believe it or not, but I also will do pet to pet breedings. Honestly...I did an awesome breeding of two awesome birds...the babies are pretty fantastic, but their temperaments suck. Guess what? Not keeping them. I'd rather have them be small and have bad deportment and be sweet than be beautiful and wildassed.

The more I am here...the more people I like, and the more I understand who is what.

Let me clarify something...since Poo Mommy apparently has an issue with reading comprehension: I never said your dogs were ugly or unattractive or whatever it is (not going to go look) that you say I said. NEVER. I said they look like BYB pets and they do. Im sure you love them, and certainly they deserve love, so good for you and them.

Let me clarify another thing: the reason I was "offended" (and I never went off...give me a break here...)by your question is that I LIVE with this dog and your question was petsy and judgemental. When you ask a longtime breed fancier if she has "worked with" her dogs that is a slap in the face...especially for someone like me who has her dogs as house dogs. I am not some dippy pet owner who lets her dogs run the house. Your question was condescending and rude and if you had any CLUE about me or my dogs (website?) or responsible breeders, behavior, or my BREED...you would have known that. But now I understand, as I did before, that you are a pet person and likely thats what is best for you. You can judge and snark on me all you want, it has no effect on my ethics, morals or dedication to my breed and the sport of purebred dogs.

Panda does not have an aggression issue that is abnormal...she has a temperament TRAIT I choose NOT to live with. I am living with it now, we are doing fine and she will be here until July and we will "work with her" (rofl) until then. I am not "getting rid" of her, I was of course going to keep her until the perfect home came along. It did. I am so happy for her...it is a wonderful thing...and my "pack" can hopefully go back to having harmony and peace and fun. I will say again...if Panda's daughter, Anna, exhibits any of the temperament that I am not willing to live with, like her mother, she will be spayed, placed in a pet home, and that line is done. EVen if I have no other, even if I have to start over...done. The great part about being "in" my breed and doing the right thing for so long is that I have awesome people who will be glad to hand me another bitch to show, finish and breed and, if I have to, start over. That is a huge compliment and I don't take that responsibility lightly.

Over and out...

MsB