i hate people "saving" dogs graphic warning

[Doberluv]

Actually according to some research (in the field) shows that feral domestic cats DO form groups.

http://books.google.ca/books?id=kO5...=X&oi=book_result&resnum=2&ct=result#PPA98,M1

Oh and for those who say take it up with your neighbours. Umm do you not read this thread. Most of us who have posted issues don't know who the cat belongs too. So we are supposed to track down the owner.. how about the the owner should be responsible and not let their cat wander unattended. How is it my job to keep track of the cats who cross my property.

I never found out who that lovely doomed young cat belonged too.

That link is VERY interesting. I never knew. I always assumed they were more solitary (except for lions) because that's what "they" always said. And I've never done any study on cats. So, that is indeed enlightening. When I really think about it though and look back on my own cats, they were indeed pals, interested in each other, played and snuggled together and were very friendly to us. That's social for ya.

Lots of animals have a territory which is very close to their home and beyond that territory is what is called a home range. They may hunt there but it is shared. So they're not as possessive of that as they are their territory. Cats, I assume utilize a territory as well as a home range. Where those circles are defined I don't know. But I know cats often wander too because it is instinct to migrate to some degree in order to find food or to find mates. They may not need those things from a practical standpoint since we take care of that but migrating has to be hardwired into them to a certain degree.

It is so important to realize that many animal packs are not constant, functioning formations. The workings of packs depend on many different factors which vary between seasons, environments, food source availability, (amount, type and size) ages of the animals, whether they're giving birth and raising young at that time and so much more. Pack behavior in many animals is very fluid. Heirarchy is often also fluid.

I've also seen many a cat dead on the side of a road and even along side highways and freeways even where there aren't any houses near by. It's a sad thing to see.

 

[Punkygirl0101]

Who said cats were solitary? (I am actually curious..cause it wasn't me). Having 23 cats, I know cats form groups.

 

[Dekka]

Oh and to point out all my cats that got feline aids were fixed. The number one way it is spread is saliva. The sick cat started sneezing and everyone else groomed each other.

Dizzy.. if this thread offends you.. no one is making you post. We know you all think we are silly. We get that. You have perfect cats who are physically incapable of wrong doing. Dogs who are free and never harm a thing are bad.. simply because the are not cats. Sure fine. Moving on...

 

[shadowfacedanes]

Who said cats were solitary? (I am actually curious..cause it wasn't me). Having 23 cats, I know cats form groups.

Dizzy did, in this post..

I did answer the fluffy question. I do not view cats the same as dogs. Never have. Never will. They might both eat meat. I'd hardly say cats are social. They TOLERATE social situations. You might get 2 cats who live together just fabulous. But left to their own devices, they'd unlikely live so close.

Cats have totally different dietary needs. They have different social behaviours and communications.

Put a cat and a dog in an identical situation and you will get two different responses because they are not the same species.

 

[Pops2]

Doberluv
not only are dogs carnivores but they are much more effective predators than cats due to their pack mentality. when it comes to hunting canines will team up w/ mortal enemies to bring down mutual prey. it has happened on occassion that coyotes & dingos have teamed up w/ dogs baying &/or catching bear, boar, bobs & lions. and the coyotes & dingos didn't bail until after the hunters in these incidents killed the game. in many of these incidents the dogs had previously killed coyotes or dingos, but didn't in these incidents due to the mutul effort on the bigger more dangerous prey.
if you don't think dogs are serious carnivores & pack animals, you just haven't spent enough time hunting w/ them. (just a note even though it might be taken that way, i don't mean this in a rude way. i'm just naturally an a-hole and sound that way.) the ability to to SURVIVE on various vegitation is a mechanism that reduces the impact of the bottom of natural population cycles.
cats OTH are more social than people realize. many of the oldtimers from the eradication days killed multiple adults of the same sex started from the same kill at the same time (it's called split trees, the pack splits up & both portions tree seperate animals). this happened w/ bobs, cougars, leopards & jags; so it isn't just lions & tigers & domestic cats that form or maintain cooperative social hunting groups.

 

[Doberluv]

Pops2. With all due respect, there is a lot more recent data out there about dogs provided by behavioral biologists and ethologists etc who make studying dogs their life. Just like I have taken what I use to hear about cats being solitary, without really researching deeply (because cats are not my primary interest as dogs are), many people are still riding the flow of myths and assumptions about dogs. There are a few theories about the origins of the domestic dog. Some make more sense than others once you do some hard core digging, which I have done and am still doing as research for the book I'm writing.

I do think that dogs are carnivores, but unlike cats, they're not obligate carnivores. They don't hunt to eat in most cases. I had a Lab that killed rabbits and sometimes ate them and promptly barfed them up on my lawn for the flies to assemble.

The hunting breeds have been artificially selected by humans and have exaggerated predatory motor patterns, not found so much in most feral or domestic dogs. And the whole sequence is never seen in domestic dogs as it is in wolves. Of the motor patterns which dogs do possess, they are surprisingly more intense and specialized than wolves'. It's just that they don't have the entire set, as wolves do. This is why I say that primarily they scavange more than they hunt. This is not to say that they do no hunting at all.

As far as pack mentality, no....domestic dogs do not have pack mentality IMO. Some of the behaviors we see, we, as humans project what we think we're seeing from our own perspective, package and label it "pack behavior" when in fact, it is not. Some wild dogs team up to take down large game. But that is the only time it is necessary to have a group of dogs cooperating together besides raising young. It is not a static thing to remain in a pack.

Here's one of many similar writings about it. It's long, but well explained. There are extended articles in the menu to the right side of this. #13 through some other number is good too. Like I say, among some other studies and theories of other scientists, there are certain threads which remain through the variations of these theories. Pack behavior, heirarchy (alpha status) etc is pretty much becoming an old myth as more and more research is being done.

http://www.nonlineardogs.com/100MostSillyPart1.html

 

[Dizzy]

Dizzy.. if this thread offends you.. no one is making you post. We know you all think we are silly. We get that. You have perfect cats who are physically incapable of wrong doing. Dogs who are free and never harm a thing are bad.. simply because the are not cats. Sure fine. Moving on...

WTF? I haven't been on the net in 24 hours, haven't posted anything since the last picture and you suddenly, from nowhere post that?






*backs away from the computer*

 

[Dekka]

umm I posted that 17ish hours ago. I posted it after I read yours (5 hours after you posted) So not sure what you are going on about?

 

[Dizzy]

umm I posted that 17ish hours ago. I posted it after I read yours (5 hours after you posted) So not sure what you are going on about?

Oh, so it was just a random outburst?

 

[Dekka]

Oh, so it was just a random outburst?

What was?

your post or mine? I read your post and responded...(and not 17 hours after the fact... not that responding late is an issue with me.. but since you seem to think that me responding to you after 9 hours is weird.. but its ok for you to do it after 17 and its not weird?) not sure what you are going on about now

 

[Dizzy]

What was?

your post or mine? I read your post and responded...(and not 17 hours after the fact... not that responding late is an issue with me.. but since you seem to think that me responding to you after 9 hours is weird.. but its ok for you to do it after 17 and its not weird?) not sure what you are going on about now

Ok, I'll tell you.

I didn't post for awhile. We're on the thread, happily discussing away, no feathers ruffled, all playing nicely, and suddenly you say:

Dizzy.. if this thread offends you.. no one is making you post. We know you all think we are silly. We get that. You have perfect cats who are physically incapable of wrong doing. Dogs who are free and never harm a thing are bad.. simply because the are not cats. Sure fine. Moving on...

I am not sure why you suddenly worry I might be offended - I never was, it was all good humor.

You say I think you're all silly? Pretty presumptious I'd say.

I have perfect cats blah blah - pretty patronising and offensive I'd say.


THAT outburst, based on god only knows what.

 

[4dogs3cats]

Jennifer
there are plenty of dogs that can hop a 6 ft wall/fence (many sighthounds can do it on the run w/o breaking stride & i've seen a beagle escape between the door & roof of an enclosed kennel after climbing the wooden door), you've simply created a difference that doesn't necessarily exist. ETA many dogs are quite calm & pleasant when out & about.
again there is nothing about a cat that doesn't apply to some dogs. dogs & cats both have essentially the same diet OTHER ANIMALS. both cause the same problems, disturbance, property damage & filth.
as for acceptance, we've clearly shown that legality is a local issue and social acceptance is really only among cat people (& not even all of them).
horses, goats, pigs & monkeys are all different from dogs w/different dietary needs and yet almost no one would assert that these animals should be allowed to roam when kept as pets even if legal.
so again why are cats allowed the special status? no one has answered, no one has truly explained why. the only thing anyone has done is put forward false differences and when shown the differences are BS they simply assert they are different.

Right, I know there are a lot of dogs that CAN do it. My dog relies on ME for his needs. Cats GENERALLY know how to stay out of the road, and out of sight. My cat, when he was alive, would lay under a bush all day long. My dogs wouldnt do that. I dont know many that would. many dogs would wander, dogs have more energy than cats. They arent happy just lounging around. You cant compare dogs and cats like that. They are different animals. Im sure my dogs could SURVIVE being outside, but they have different needs, they rely on me, and cats are generally speaking more independent.

I always kept an eye on my cats, they would always be in my front law, or laying under a bush. They didnt like to wander, and were only outside for about an hour at a time.

That reminded me of this! LOL

Not only did he climb at least 6ft, the kennel had a ROOF and door, LOL
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5sJjE5qelXQ

And here are a ton of vids of beagles climbing/escaping

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_type=&search_query=escaping+beagle&aq=f

haha I know they CANNNN do it, Im just saying, let me rephrase it this way.

What cat CANNOT do that? Not many.

 

[Dekka]

Ok, I'll tell you.

I didn't post for awhile. We're on the thread, happily discussing away, no feathers ruffled, all playing nicely, and suddenly you say:



I am not sure why you suddenly worry I might be offended - I never was, it was all good humor.

You say I think you're all silly? Pretty presumptious I'd say.

I have perfect cats blah blah - pretty patronising and offensive I'd say.


THAT outburst, based on god only knows what.

I was replying to a previous post of yours where you were belittling our opinions and making fun of others. (again) I posted after I read it. It was about 9 hours after you posted so its not like it was out of the blue. Then we are all "happily discussing away" and you come in all feathers ruffled way after....If you feel so strongly no one is making you post. I was replying to a previous post of yours.. not out of nowhere.

 

[Dizzy]

I was replying to a previous post of yours where you were belittling our opinions and making fun of others. (again) If you feel so strongly no one is making you post. I was replying to a previous post of yours.. not out of nowhere.

Which one?

 

[shadowfacedanes]

Which one?

Off topic here, but Dizzy...

Weren't YOU the one who posted several pages back about how silly it was to keep beating a dead horse?

Just sayin'. I know how you like to call other people hypocrites. I just found some irony in the fact that this thread had returned to a somewhat adult conversation until you bursted in derailing it and making passive aggressive jabs at Dekka. Again.

/observation.

 

[Dizzy]

Off topic here, but Dizzy...

Weren't YOU the one who posted several pages back about how silly it was to keep beating a dead horse?

Just sayin'. I know how you like to call other people hypocrites. I just found some irony in the fact that this thread had returned to a somewhat adult conversation until you bursted in derailing it and making passive aggressive jabs at Dekka. Again.

/observation.

Errrr - let's fill the blanks shall we.

I posted that because I was wondering how many pages this thread would get to. And I was actually amused by it. Remind me to make sure I PM you 1st to let you know my intentions when I post a picture.

I have no need to be passive aggressive because I am MORE than capable of saying what I want to say. I didn't "burst in", I would have posted earlier, but woe is me, I don't sit all day at my computer, tongue lolling, waiting for the next post.

When have I called someone a hypocrite?

How about you lose the chip on your shoulder and start playing nice? I know you find every post I make intolerable, but please, move on.

 

[Dekka]

um Diz.. did you not post those pics making fun of us? If not someone is hacking your account. If you did .. well then you don't have a leg to stand on.

I think you have some great posts.. and I think you have lots that aren't.. I don't think that people fine EVERY one of your posts intolerable. But you lash out, then say it was all in fun, then get defencive... pretty much every time.

I can disagree with people and still like them. Disagreeing with someones opinion does not NEED to devalue that opinion.

Anyway back to the convo at hand.

Carrie that was a great link! I can't wait for them to do more of the myths. The only disagreement I have is that my dogs DO eat what they kill. Young rabbits, mice, frogs (though they let them dry out first.. then eat them)

 

[ACooper]

u
Carrie that was a great link! I can't wait for them to do more of the myths. The only disagreement I have is that my dogs DO eat what they kill. Young rabbits, mice, frogs (though they let them dry out first.. then eat them)

Somehow frog jerky just doesn't sound all that great *bleck*

 

[Dizzy]

um Diz.. did you not post those pics making fun of us? If not someone is hacking your account. If you did .. well then you don't have a leg to stand on.

Ok, I am going to use it..............



I didn't realise people could be so self obsessed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I posted those because I thought they were FUNNY. This thread was never ending, someone commented on it never dying, and I wasn't feeling like being serious. You might notice those posts are mostly nonsense too.

If I wanted to poke fun at people I'd have posted something like this:

I think you have some great posts.. and I think you have lots that aren't.. I don't think that people fine EVERY one of your posts intolerable. But you lash out, then say it was all in fun, then get defencive... pretty much every time.

I don't think everyone does, I just think shadowfacedanes does

I never lash out. If you think I am doing, you have me all wrong. But that's the way the cookie crumbles. Makes the threads interesting if nothing else lol

I can disagree with people and still like them. Disagreeing with someones opinion does not NEED to devalue that opinion.

Anyway back to the convo at hand.

I am glad you are able to do that, so many people aren't.

 

[Dekka]

Somehow frog jerky just doesn't sound all that great *bleck*

Kaiden kills them (frogs are supposed to be endagered or at risk.. well no one told the ones who live here.. you walk through the grass and they are leaping out of your way all over the place) then leaves them. Once they are dry and crispy the first dog who finds them gets the jackpot.

Bleck is right! nooo dried froggy kisses.



Oh and Dizzy.. In many ways you remind me of one of my best friends..