Question for Mordy

Hi,
I just wanted a second opinion on a food. It's called Nature's Logic. I'm looking at the dry formula for dogs in the chicken. What do you think?
www.natureslogic.com
thanks!!!!

Ingredients:

Chicken Meal, Millet, Chicken Fat, Montmorillonite, Brewer’s Yeast, Flaxseed, Dried Egg Product, Spray Dried Chicken Liver, Pumpkin Seed, Animal Plasma, Kelp, Natural Flavor, Cottage Cheese, Suncured Alfalfa Meal, Egg Shell, Avocado, Chicory Root, Tomato Powder, Almonds, Spray Dried Cod Liver Oil, Apple Powder, Blueberry, Apricots, Carrots, Pumpkin, Cranberry, Broccoli, Spinach, Parsley, Artichoke, Rosemary, Fermentation Products (Lactobacillus Acidophilus Fermentation Product Dehydrated, Lactobacillus Casei Fermentation Product, Bifidobacterium Bifidium Fermentation Product Dehydrated, Streptococcus Faecium Fermentation Product Dehydrated, Lactobacillus Sporogenes Fermentation Product Dehydrated), Enzymes (Amylase, Protease, Lipase, Cellulase, Bromelain), Mixed Tocopherols.

Overall it's a nice product, you just need to be aware that
* each formula contains protein from beef sources in form of blood plasma (which not all dogs tolerate), and
* the content of montmorillonite (a type of clay) is higher than that of any other secondary ingredients. Montmorillonite is not a bad ingredient, and a nice benefit is that the food does not have to rely on synthetic mineral additives, but it may not be equally tolerated by all individuals.

Herschel, the animal plasma Nature's Logic uses is from bovine sources in the products manufactured for the U.S. market, so it's not a generic ingredient that could be anything under the sun, like for example in "animal digest".

Animal plasma contains albumin and globulin proteins which support the immune system, which is a nice side effect.

Thanks very much Mordy (and Herschel!!!) Our store owner has started bringing this into our product line, and she classes it above the Evo. I was getting mixed info about clay and animal plasma as well, although it is a nice food since there are all the additives are naturally occuring ones instead of synthetic. Thanks for your input!

It's not really comparable to Evo, since the Nature's Logic is not a grain-free product. I would also not dismiss the research that has gone into Natura's products over the past 10+ years. From what I can tell, Nature's Logic relies on analysis of their product and does not do feeding trials.

In addition to that, while I am all in favor for natural nutrition, I find that Nature's Logic is doing a good bit of fear mongering yet isn't following through on their philosophy all the way - for example, why do they not use at least some organic ingredients, what kind of cattle does the blood plasma come from (most likely regular feedlot cattle), and why do they not post more pertinent information about their foods ont heir website, such as calcium, phosphorus and ash content, or the caloric density per pound or kilogram of food?

There are advantages and disadvantages to all products out there, and ultimately decisions should be made after doing a feeding trial at home.

One thing I really commend the people at Nature's Logic on is that they had the guts to forego the AAFCO nutritional adequacy statement.

Mordy,
thanks for all your comments. I've spoken to our owner about source of the animal plasma, and she's calling him tomorrow. She's also got a detailed report about all the feeding trials that have been done on the product.

I've never seen animal plasma in another food. Why is it not tolerable to some dogs?

Thanks!

Some Wysong foods also contain animal plasma. There are others, but mostly canned varieties.

Plasma consists of proteins, and proteins are the most frequent triggers of allergic reactions. In grains for example, it's first and foremost the gluten (protein part) that causes allergies.

So for example if you have a dog who is allergic to beef, you could possibly see a reaction from feeding these products even though the main meat ingredients aren't beef, since they contain protein of beef origin. Bovine serum albumin is considered a major allergen in beef, and that is one of the substances in the animal plasma.

Don't get me wrong though - all this doesn't make it a bad ingredient, just something to be aware of. It supplies good nutrition for those individuals who are not allergic or sensitive to beef, but I wonder how many owners of dogs with food allergies who are looking into alternative kibble formulations may not notice, or not be informed well enough to look for things like that.

Thanks for the details on the plasma. It's something to keep in mind...
I find that more and more of our customers are looking at the SG Barking at the Moon for an alternative to the Evo if their dogs didn't like it, or if they just seem to be doing poorly on the Evo.
But I'll keep the Nature's Logic in mind for the run of the mill I-just-want-to-feed-my-dog-better-food people.
We're also considering briging in the Orijen, but I see there's already a thread on that. It's nice that we're finally getting a decent Canadian brand into place!

BatM is also a nice food. I like the fact that it is free of any kind of poultry, which is a problem for some dogs.

The Evo "red meat" too, but I wish Natura would have left out the buffalo and venison, since they are considered "novel proteins" which are sometimes sorely needed to fall back on with allergy dogs who cannot tolerate other meat types. If a dog is allergic and an elimination diet is required, you need protein and carb sources a dog has never previously been exposed to, so the more variety a dog gets, the smaller the number of possible novel proteins available.

Chicken, duck, turkey, lamb, beef and fish formulas are common, buffalo/bison, rabbit, venison and so on are getting there too, so if a dog needs a novel protein, things get difficult. There are prescription allergy diets made with kangaroo etc., but they are usually of low quality.