Yuck look at this website

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#41
Oh Jaaaay-sus. This is too stupid to even muster up a reply too....however, being the stubborn kind of gal I am....

"Pricelesspups"....how about you do a little reading, figure out what you are doing, and THEN come back and try to have an intelligent debate.

You're just pissing in the wind here. No one buys your garbarge. Sadly though, uninformed people are buying your "stock".

People like you disgust me. You ruin the breeds that so many care for under the guise of some noble quest.

Puke. Ack. Vomit. Wretch.

You might be making bundles off of your mixed puppy peddling business, but it's a **** shame money can't buy you morals, or education.
 
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#43
Wow, check out the spelling in this sentence alone

"...and guiardia! Most breeders only use stangent T for round worm. We treat 10 days as a preventative for coxxidiia before...."

And they start vaccines and deworming awfully young don't they?
 
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#46
Hmm... Wouldn't someone starting a breed *ONLY* breed that one breed, And then why would they charge so much for their breed? I mean it costs no more then raising any other dog especially since you don't have the cost of going to shows... Hmm...
 
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#47
I like how the CLAIM to be the "experts" and the first ones to ever breed and "perfect" the shorkie standard because they have been breeding them intentionally for 13 years... :rolleyes:
 
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#48
They have a lot of dogs to fit on a California King mattress. Raise as part of the family? Illegal immigrants with 15 people in a 2 bed appartment have more room to live in.
 

jess2416

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#51
Ahhhh.....here it is....

The Backyard Breeder and Puppymiller's Big Book of Old Excuses

1. When called on bad breeding practices, ALWAYS claim that you are merely an innocent posting as a favor to a friend or family member.

2. Point out that everybody you know breeds this way, therefore it must be okay.

3. Claim that "snobby show breeders" are only criticizing you because they want to corner the market on puppy profit.

4. Claim that a Champion in the pedigree is just as good as 56 Champions in the pedigree. Not that it matters, because you doubt that there is such a thing as a dog with 56 champions in the pedigree.

5. Claim that you are just trying to produce good pets, therefore good pets are all you need for breeding.

6. When asked about health testing, enthusiastically point out that your bitch had a health checkup before breeding.

7. Be sure to mention that you do not need to run such health tests as OFA, CERF, thyroid, cardiac, patellas, etc., because your dogs look healthy and had no visible problems at their last vet checkup.

8. Point out that these tests cost too much and would cut into your profit margin. Be sure to champion the right of poor people to breed dogs.

9. Confidently assure worried rescuers that no puppy you produce, or any of their puppies or grandpuppies or great-grandpuppies will end up in shelters because you have a bunch of friends who have told you that they'd like a pup from your bitch.

10. Point out that you don't need Championships or working titles on your dogs because you are breeding for temperament and your dog is really sweet.

11. Silence those annoying people who ask about your health guarantee by assuring them that buyers can return any sick puppies and you will replace it with another pup as long as it got sick within a certain amount of time of sale and as long as you don't
think the buyer did something to make the puppy sick.

12. If your breed or line is rare (or you have a "rare" color, or believe your breed or color is rare), be sure to remind everyone that you do not need to show, temperament test, or health test your breeding stock because you are doing the world a service by continuing
this "rare" breed/color/line.

13. No matter what anyone else says, claim that you obviously know what you are doing because you've been breeding for a long time. Point to the hundreds of puppies you've pumped out over the years as proof.

14. If this is your first attempt at breeding, make sure to remind everyone that you have to breed your dog because how else are you going to learn how to breed?

15. Assure everyone that your dog does not need to be shown because you were assured by someone at Petsmart/the park/the vet's office/a friend that your dog is a perfect example of the breed.

16. Always remember that "rare" colors, oversized or undersized dogs, and mixes of popular breeds are great selling points. Anyone who doesn't think so is obviously not in tune with their customers' wishes.

17. Claim that your dogs are better because they are not inbred, as inbreeding obviously produces sick/stupid/deformed dogs. If breeding poo dogs or other mutts, always point to hybrid vigor as proof of your dogs’ superiority.

18. Remind everyone that you do not need a waiting list because your puppies are cute.

19. Assure everyone that your puppies will not end up in shelters because they are cute.

20. Claim that your breed never ends up in shelters in your area, therefore your puppies will never end up in shelters.

21. If asked why you think your dogs are breeding quality, point out that they "have papers." Extra points awarded for using the phrase "AKC Certified." Double points if those papers come from the Continental Kennel Club.

22. If you sell a sick puppy, always blame the owners for making it sick. If the owners are clearly not responsible, blame their vet. (see #11)

23. If presented with irrefutable evidence proving you wrong on any excuses you have used, pretend your server did not receive the post/e-mail.

24. Claim that none of the rules of ethical breeding apply to you because you only intend to have one litter and therefore aren't a "real" breeder.

25. If all else fails, tell everyone who criticizes you to get a life.
 
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#52
Than ks SOOOO MUCH!

I know I know.. You all hate me as a breeder as they are mutts and I said I would not post anything else. But I am the type of person that gives credit where credit is due. No matter what you think of me. I truly do love my dogs and puppies and puppy parents and want to do the best job possible for them. So I thank you all for pushing me a bit to do more than I was already doing.
Due to all the posts here I have now added hips and eyes to our health warranty as it is the right thing to do. Just to be clear NO PUPPY OF MINE ever will end up in the pound. We will always take them back no matter what the circumstance.

I also never did the puppies CERF eyes as you could not register hybrid puppies with CERF in the past. BUT!!! We have now come to find out that we CAN! Cerf is now recognizing mixed breeds. This was excellent news that I would not have come across had I not read your replies which caused me to do more research. Each and every personal puppy of mine will be have a CERF test done and parents of course and will be registered and Tested as well.
Next we will be moving towards the OFA of our parents as well as they can all be registered.
Thanks for pushing me a little harder and helping me do more.
Although I still have my opinions about some of your thought processes as you do mine, I just wanted to give thanks where it was due. I have also left the link to validate the truth that CERF is now acknowledging designer breeds ( I KNOW I KNOW MUTTS!)LOL! for you all to see.
On a last note. Please try and find it in your hearts to see things from all perspectives.

The over population of dogs in the pound is not just mixed breeds although they are higher ,I agree. But there is much fault to be found in Society in general and there attitude towards animals. We are a throw away society. Many puppy parents are the problem! They purchase puppies as an emotional purchase and then don't keep the commitment. Just dump them off at the pound. I know as I have done many of the shih tzu rescues here and have saved a life many times. I know you think our prices are outrageous, but the truth is if a person is willing to pay the price we ask, they are more likely to think it through all the way before spending that much money and to make a life time commitment to the dog.
Unlike many that just buy a puppy for a couple hundred dollars get tired of the puppy and find it easier to justify not keeping the commitment. The other thing is many of the puppies at the pound are from ACCIDENTAL BREEDINGS! and are large dogs not small ones. Many people cannot and may not want a big DOG. Most dogs in the pounds that are mixes are Shepherd and rot or large breed mixes. It is a known fact that shelters have actually purchased small breed puppies to sell to generate money for the bigger dogs to be cared for. There was a dateline special done 4 years ago on shelters doing that.


Even here it is 350 to adopt a small dog but 150 for a large dog. So even the shelters charge more for the smaller breeds. Many dogs at the pound have behavior issues as well do to BAD PARENTING! not necessarily breeding. So mixed breeders are not the only fault for dogs at the pound. There is a huge cycle. What about the puppy parents that do not want a dog from the pound but want a MUTT as you call them..that do not want to buy a purebred. Shouldn't they have a choice too? To purchase a healthy puppy from a responsible breeder. Why should they not be allowed to have that choice. Is it not possible for a breeder no matter what they are breeding to do it and be responsible in it? To do everything that purebred breeders do? Somehow I think you would still not like it.
It almost reminds me of the fight that goes on between animal lovers and VEGANS that love animals too or PETA arguments. If you love animals and are a responsible purebred breeder a vegan would tell you that you don't love your animals because you eat meat. Or some extreme PETA people that go around to dog shows setting dogs free on purpose. As they believe dogs should not ever be under humans control.

We also just want to note for record we do require references from a vet and personal references that we do check to ensure to the best of our ability all our puppies go to a 4 ever home. Again Just to be clear NO PUPPY OF MINE ever will end up in the pound. We will always take them back no matter what the circumstance. That also includes the breeder Friends of mine as well.
Well I guess that's it for now. Thanks for your time
Hugs and puppy kisses

PS The racial comments were meant to make you think. Humans have been known for wanting a superior RACE!! it is all throughout history! It just feels the same in the dog world. That if they are purebred they are MUTTS! There are plenty of names that humans are called too that aren't purebred. As far as the dog pounds being full of MUTTS it does not equate to humans needing homes!! Please Please do your research.. You will find that minority babies and multi racial children are flooding foster care homes the racier is much higher than that of Caucasian children. No matter what the reason for it is.. There is a need that area too! But that does not mean we should not have children of multi racial backgrounds born in to the world. It was not meant to offend.. But to make you think about that whole idea of HUMANS through out history always searching trying to make something SUPERIOR
in and of itself. That all. Sorry if I offended anyone.
Stefanie
sorry for any type Os's or if it is a hard read
As I said here is the info and Link that Cerf is now recognizing mixed breeds
http://www.vmdb.org/cerf.html
Hybrid dogs eligible for CERF certification as of January 1, 2007

As of January 1, 2007 the Canine Eye Registration Foundation has begun issuing registration certificates for hybrid dogs under a program similar to that of purebred dogs.
Registration and certification will follow the same guidelines used for purebred dogs except that dogs with any eye disorders presumed to be inherited will carry a not-to-breed recommendation. Certification will require the examination of the dog by an ACVO diplomat who must certify the dog to be free of eye disorders presumed to be inherited. A fully completed and signed CERF registration form will need to be submitted to the CERF office in Urbana, IL. Initial registration and issuance of a hybrid dog CERF certificate will cost US$15.00, re-registrations will cost US$12.00. Checks must be drawn on US banks only. Recognized Hybrids
 

yoko

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#54
i was trying to go to the site but can't go there now? is anyone else hav ing this problem or is it just my computer?
 

Cheetah

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#55
The race thing makes absolutely no sense to me. Humans CHOOSE to reproduce. Dogs don't have a choice, as we CHOOSE to breed them. This is not about "superior breeds vs. mutts." This is about the millions of pets that are put to death each year in the shelters, because breeders keep breeding MORE.
 

Fran27

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#56
Due to all the posts here I have now added hips and eyes to our health warranty as it is the right thing to do. Just to be clear NO PUPPY OF MINE ever will end up in the pound. We will always take them back no matter what the circumstance.
Is it in your contract? And do you really check every year that the people still have the dog? If not, you just wouldn't know.

I also never did the puppies CERF eyes as you could not register hybrid puppies with CERF in the past. BUT!!! We have now come to find out that we CAN! Cerf is now recognizing mixed breeds. This was excellent news that I would not have come across had I not read your replies which caused me to do more research. Each and every personal puppy of mine will be have a CERF test done and parents of course and will be registered and Tested as well.
Next we will be moving towards the OFA of our parents as well as they can all be registered.
Well, kudos for that. I don't think you can do CERF on the puppies because of age, but that's something. Hopefully you won't have too many bad surprises with the parents, and if you do you will be responsible enough to stop breeding them.


The over population of dogs in the pound is not just mixed breeds although they are higher ,I agree. But there is much fault to be found in Society in general and there attitude towards animals. We are a throw away society. Many puppy parents are the problem! They purchase puppies as an emotional purchase and then don't keep the commitment. Just dump them off at the pound. I know as I have done many of the shih tzu rescues here and have saved a life many times. I know you think our prices are outrageous, but the truth is if a person is willing to pay the price we ask, they are more likely to think it through all the way before spending that much money and to make a life time commitment to the dog.

Unlike many that just buy a puppy for a couple hundred dollars get tired of the puppy and find it easier to justify not keeping the commitment. The other thing is many of the puppies at the pound are from ACCIDENTAL BREEDINGS! and are large dogs not small ones. Many people cannot and may not want a big DOG. Most dogs in the pounds that are mixes are Shepherd and rot or large breed mixes. It is a known fact that shelters have actually purchased small breed puppies to sell to generate money for the bigger dogs to be cared for. There was a dateline special done 4 years ago on shelters doing that.
I think you are mistaken there. I do agree that of course people who buy the puppies are at fault, but by breeding more you're just adding to the problem... Any puppy bought from a breeder is one more dog that gets euthanised. And spending so much for a puppy is not a sign of responsibility, it's a sign of being rich - and rich people are EVEN more likely to get rid of their puppy as soon as the novelty wears off.


Even here it is 350 to adopt a small dog but 150 for a large dog. So even the shelters charge more for the smaller breeds. Many dogs at the pound have behavior issues as well do to BAD PARENTING! not necessarily breeding. So mixed breeders are not the only fault for dogs at the pound. There is a huge cycle. What about the puppy parents that do not want a dog from the pound but want a MUTT as you call them..that do not want to buy a purebred. Shouldn't they have a choice too? To purchase a healthy puppy from a responsible breeder. Why should they not be allowed to have that choice. Is it not possible for a breeder no matter what they are breeding to do it and be responsible in it? To do everything that purebred breeders do? Somehow I think you would still not like it.
There is just no reason to breed more pet dogs. You can deny it but there are pages and pages of small dogs on petfinder. And personally, I would educate those people who want small dogs to open up to big dogs instead of making money because people have found a niche :rolleyes: Mostly, with a mix people have no idea what they're getting, as the pup can take the characteristics of both breeds. So I'm guessing the responsible thing to do would be to get a dog from a responsible breeder indeed, but one that breeds purebred and is trying to improve the breed... not to make money on puppies back and adding more dogs to the pound. Especially when they charge outrageous prices.

I mean, what justifies those prices? You got it - nothing.


And when it comes to backyard breeders, I don't care if they are breeding mixes or purebred - if they're not breeding to improve the breed, there is no point in breeding today.

So maybe all that health testing will make you a 9/10 in the scale of the backyard breeders, but you'll still be a backyard breeder.
 
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#57
I know you think our prices are outrageous, but the truth is if a person is willing to pay the price we ask, they are more likely to think it through all the way before spending that much money and to make a life time commitment to the dog.
I don't have time to deal with all of your weird ideas at the moment but can definitely comment on this one ...

As an active rescuer, we frequently get dogs turned in with their receipts for $1800 and more. Price is not commitment. If people can easily spend that kind of money, they can just as easily afford to throw it away.
 

Fran27

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#58
I don't have time to deal with all of your weird ideas at the moment but can definitely comment on this one ...

As an active rescuer, we frequently get dogs turned in with their receipts for $1800 and more. Price is not commitment. If people can easily spend that kind of money, they can just as easily afford to throw it away.
Exactly. Worst excuse for greediness ever.
 
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#59
And look at this page! "Tiny Puppies!" They're BRAGGING that they have a puppy that's under two pounds at twelve weeks! That is a RUNT, they should be selling it for the same amount, or less. But DEFINATELY not MORE!
 

IliamnasQuest

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#60
I took a look at that gawd-awful website.

I do hope that those who read the "priceless pups" website come here to read the comments. It will hopefully give them some insight into what a bad breeder is. What I'm going to say here will be already known by those who frequent this forum but may open the eyes of people who are researching a possible purchase from this "breeder".

One of the things that is sadly missing on that website is health certifications for the breeding stock. This is an absolute sign of a poor breeder. They can throw in all the statements about how their dogs are checked by their vets, but the reality is that if they can't give you certification numbers then they're just blowing smoke.

Every breed of dog carries certain genetic diseases. Conscientious and responsible breeders are working hard to breed away from those diseases. The only true way to do this is to have their breeding stock examined by QUALIFIED veterinarians (usually specialists) and then they have their dogs certified through the appropriate organization to show that their dogs have passed these health tests. The biggest organization for certification is the Orthopedic Foundation of Animals (OFA - www.offa.org). You can go to the OFA website and do a search for specific dogs or for breeds and find out who has truly had their dogs certified. CERF (Canine Eye Registry Foundation) also shares their results with OFA so that the majority of results can be found in one place.

Good breeders then proudly share these certification numbers so that potential buyers can go to the appropriate websites and check to make sure the dogs are appropriately certified. On a breeder's website, this information should be in a prominent place along with the registered name of the dog and any titles they have earned.

Now, on the "pricelesspups" site there is not only no mention of health certification numbers, they don't even give you the names of the breeding stock so that you can research them yourselves. And there's really only one reason why a breeder wouldn't share that information .. it's because the health certifications have not been done and they are not breeding for the health of the animals.

Statements regarding how the dogs have been examined by their own vet mean nothing. A typical vet is not qualified to do a true examination for genetic diseases. Hip and elbow dysplasia, for example, can only be fully diagnosed through x-rays. Thyroid disease requires bloodwork. An exam by a vet can find the most obvious problems but not those genetic ones that are carried on, and any breeder trying to make you think that their dogs are truly healthy because a vet has examined them is just plain deceptive. And that's a bad thing.

Now, some of these breeders will try to tell you that by mixing breeds, they're developing a healthier line of dogs. This is just not true. If they're not even sure of what the genetic background of their purebred dogs are (determined by the health certifications discussed above as well as knowing the health certifications for several generations back) there is no way they can have any true idea if they're breeding healthier. Many genetic problems are present in a variety of breeds, and if you breed a yorkie with a background of luxating patellas (they currently are listed as #6 on the OFA site in luxating patellas, a crippling disease of the hind legs) with a shih tzu who also has a background of luxating patellas, then it stands to reason that the puppies could have a high risk of the same disease. And it doesn't even have to be obviously present in the female or male they're breeding .. it could be in the grandparents or even farther back. Without knowing the health certifications for at least 3-4 generations you just really don't know what you're breeding.

YOu know what's sad? All of this information should be readily available on the "pricelesspups" website. I find that site to be completely devoid of any true information - they rely entirely on pulling people in with cute photos and lots of empty words. Their prices are ludicrous, too .. anyone paying those prices has been 100% been taken. You're buying a puppy - sometimes a MIX of breeds - that has no true health background and has no proof of quality.

Let's talk about proof of quality now. Every breed has a standard set up through a parent club. This standard describes the various characteristics of the breed, from looks to temperament. They set size standards as well as coat colors, etc. This is done in order to maintain a certain level of quality and consistency so that a breed remains a breed and doesn't become too much like other breeds. Good, responsible breeders go to great effort to prove their dog's adherence to breed standard by having their dogs assessed by qualified people - people who are highly knowledgeable about the breed. This is where showing comes in. While you may not care about having a show dog, if you want a shih tzu then you should get a true shih tzu and not some shadow of the breed that has been assessed only by the breeder, the breeder's friends or the family vet (who often has no true knowledge of specific breeds). In addition, other titles help prove the quality of the dog. Obedience, agility, tracking, therapy dog, etc. - these are all areas in which dogs can be titled/certified in order to prove intelligence, ability, and temperament.

These are all things that prove quality. If you're paying high prices for a dog, you want health, temperament, intelligence, athleticism and proof of adherence to breed standard. Any breeder making little or no effort to prove these is a very poor breeder and is just out to get your money. Why would you waste your money on people like that?

Some other comments on this particular "breeder" (and I keep putting that in quotation marks because I don't consider this person or persons as true breeders - they merely mix sperm with eggs and then sell the results for a lot of money to unsuspecting people). On their training page they talk about crate-training. Good breeders will have crate-trained the puppies before they leave. They should also be started on leash training and basic manners. They should be fully handled and socialized well before leaving. This is a lot more than simply raising the puppies in the home. They should have interacted with dozens of strangers before the age of 8 weeks. They should have gone for car rides. They should have been on numerous surfaces, been exposed to many different noises as well as sights. They should also be assessed by someone who is very experienced with dog behavior so as to separate them into different types of personalities - this is vital so that the pups can be properly matched with the right families. But NONE of this is mentioned on the website.

On to the guarantee. You never get money back. NEVER. Even if you put money down on a specific pup and something happens so that they can't/won't send you the pup you chose, you don't get money back. They let you transfer the money to another puppy (how kind of them, right?). And if your pup ends up sick within the guidelines of their limited and vague guarantee, you still never get money back. You may have spent thousands in vet bills but - IF they decide your pup is actually covered under their guarantee - you get another pup from their lines! That's a pretty poor guarantee.

OH - and let's not forget that you have to feed a food that THEY make money off of (or your guarantee is void). This is not a dog food that is easily accessible. You have to order it from a website and as everyone knows, shipping dog food can get pretty darn expensive. While the food listed appears to be a better food than many, there ARE other foods just as good or better that are easier to find - but then they wouldn't make any money on them, would they?

Now, if all that hasn't made you think "woah, this may not be the "breeder" I want to deal with" .. let's talk registries. I see that they list puppies as registered with APR and ACA. These are CRAP registries that will accept pretty much any dog as "registered" as long as people just write down names for the pedigrees and send them the money. These are the registries that people often use when their dogs can't be registered through the more established and reputable registries (such as American Kennel Club, Canadian Kennel Club). In fact there are many breeders out there whose dogs can no longer be registered through AKC because when AKC checked the DNA of their dogs, they found that the parents listed were not actually the true parents! This is not unusual in breeding situations where there are a lot of dogs and owners who are not really paying attention. So whenever I see a website listing these bogus-type registries as the registries they use for their dogs, I suspect that it's because there has been some very poor handling in the breeding of the dogs and they are no longer acceptable with AKC. It can also mean that they got a dog that appeared purebred (maybe from the pound or a rescue) but wasn't registered and they made up a pedigree so that they could register through APR or another of the poor quality registries. These registries are simply making money by supplying a registration number.

So if you want to buy from "pricelesspups" and pay exorbitant amounts for dogs that are not proven to be healthy OR of a true breed quality, then at least you're forewarned. And if you've read through this entire thread, then you know the kind of people dealing with selling these pups. They're the kind of people who would bring race into the discussion in order to try to distract everyone from the true problems in their breeding practices.

Do you really want a puppy from people like that?

Melanie and the gang in Alaska
 
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