Vet's argument against raw feeding

Pomp

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#1
I went to the vet last week and when asked, told them I feed my dog some raw foods. They proceeded to tell me why a raw diet does not make sense for the dog and even gave me a handout explaining why.

The title of the handout was:

MYTH: Dogs should eat raw food because that is what they eat in the "wild."

Their argument:

1. Dogs who live in the wild have shorter lifespans.
2. Dogs can get sick from eating raw food because of bacteria.
3. Dogs can choke on bones.

Those were basically the three reasons, while they placed the most emphasis on the first two.


Comments?
 
R

RedyreRottweilers

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#2
I went to the vet last week and when asked, told them I feed my dog some raw foods. They proceeded to tell me why a raw diet does not make sense for the dog and even gave me a handout explaining why.

The title of the handout was:

MYTH: Dogs should eat raw food because that is what they eat in the "wild."

Their argument:

1. Dogs who live in the wild have shorter lifespans.
2. Dogs can get sick from eating raw food because of bacteria.
3. Dogs can choke on bones.

Those were basically the three reasons, while they placed the most emphasis on the first two.


Comments?

Dogs who live in the wild have shorter lifespans because they have to forage for themselves, and are subject to predators, being hit by car, they don't get preventive health care, they don't have adequate shelter, fencing, and someone to put good food in their bowl every day.

My own personal vet, many years ago, after making a comment about my dog's clean mouth and gorgeous physical condition, asked me what I was feeding. When I told her, she began the bacteria lecture.

I would think a Vet would know that a dog has about a 14 foot intestinal tract that is specifically designed to deal with bacteria loads in meat, carrion, and fecal material. I told my own vet, "with all due respect, doc, we are talking about an animal who will eat feces given the opportunity, and who licks it's anus on a daily basis, so I can't get really worried about bacteria levels in properly handled raw meat".

Yes, dogs can choke on bones. And kibble. I don't know of any dog who has choked to death on a bone. I can name 3 instances right off the top of my head where dogs have choked and died on kibble.

Your vet's arguments don't hold water, and show a closed mind and ignorance, IMO.
 
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#4
I would rather see an unbiased study on the matter. Every vet I've ever gone to has been fully stocked with Science Diet, so I doubt their objectivity in the matter. They aren't going to make any money if you can achieve the same results feeding raw that you could get if you bought their $50 perscription diets. ;) Mmmkay, that's my smart-aleck reply and I'm sticking to it!
 

Pomp

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#5
"with all due respect, doc, we are talking about an animal who will eat feces given the opportunity, and who licks it's anus on a daily basis, so I can't get really worried about bacteria levels in properly handled raw meat".
Hysterical. This is the funniest line I've seen on this board.

You're right though and I challenged her on it. I noticed a Purina sign in the office and I said "I'm going to challenge you on this. See that Purina sign. Purina has to be one of the worst foods you could possibly feed a dog."
 
B

Bobsk8

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#6
Dogs who live in the wild have shorter lifespans because they have to forage for themselves, and are subject to predators, being hit by car, they don't get preventive health care, they don't have adequate shelter, fencing, and someone to put good food in their bowl every day.

My own personal vet, many years ago, after making a comment about my dog's clean mouth and gorgeous physical condition, asked me what I was feeding. When I told her, she began the bacteria lecture.

I would think a Vet would know that a dog has about a 14 foot intestinal tract that is specifically designed to deal with bacteria loads in meat, carrion, and fecal material. I told my own vet, "with all due respect, doc, we are talking about an animal who will eat feces given the opportunity, and who licks it's anus on a daily basis, so I can't get really worried about bacteria levels in properly handled raw meat".

Yes, dogs can choke on bones. And kibble. I don't know of any dog who has choked to death on a bone. I can name 3 instances right off the top of my head where dogs have choked and died on kibble.

Your vet's arguments don't hold water, and show a closed mind and ignorance, IMO.
I have never heard of a dog choking to death on kibble, but getting a bone lodged in it's digestive tract is a pretty common occurence.
 

Buddy'sParents

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#7
*shakes head*

My vet also thinks that Science Diet is nurtritionally sound diet for our dogs....:lol-sign:
 

Zoom

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#8
I've seen a numer of dogs choke on kibble...thankfully they usually just hack until they throw up everything they just ate and then re-eat it. Anything is a choking hazard to some dogs...toys, balls (ever had to heimlich a golf ball out of a lab?) sticks...feed size appropriate raw bones and the risk diminishes quite a bit.
 

DanL

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#9
I have never heard of a dog choking to death on kibble, but getting a bone lodged in it's digestive tract is a pretty common occurence.
I guess if you never heard of it, it doesn't happen, even when people who work at vets and other places where they are around large numbers of dogs have seen it?

Regardless, a bone in the gut is not the same as choking. My guys eat raw bones all the time, mostly soft bones like chicken or ribs. If it's a leg type bone or something hard, I monitor them. If they are working a rec bone and start breaking pieces off, I take it and throw it away. I would place money that most dogs who have bones lodged in them were given cooked bones that are not easily digestible and which splinter rather than crush when the dog eats them.
 

J's crew

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#10
I have never heard of a dog choking to death on kibble, but getting a bone lodged in it's digestive tract is a pretty common occurence.
Was it a RAW bone, or one of the smoked brittle kind you get at a pet store?
 
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#11
In all fairness, and not to offend anyone...Vet's have such a limited education as far as nutrition goes that owners are best to do their own research.
Unless said Vet specializes in nutrition studies, they have as little knowledge as or less than our human physicialns do with regards to our nutritional requirements.

The raw battle rages on and I suspect that it will for a good long time. :)
As long as their are bagged foods, company's to research and promote them, dogs who cannot tolerate raw (and some truly can't) and dogs who prove to do extremely well on raw....we need to do what works best for our own..
 

otch1

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#12
Excellent position to take on this subject Dr2. I'm currently going thru this debate with my own breeder of new Dobie pup and my vet!
 
R

RedyreRottweilers

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#13
I know of THREE dogs who are dead from choking on kibble.

2 were puppies, one was an adult dog. For certain.

Can dogs choke on bones as well?

Yep.

Likely? About as likely as choking on kibble. I've fed bones on a nearly daily basis to numerous dogs for over 13 years with no choking.

But yes, it could happen.
 

elegy

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#14
I have never heard of a dog choking to death on kibble, but getting a bone lodged in it's digestive tract is a pretty common occurence.
based on whose numbers and please define "pretty common"?

also, are those bones cooked or raw, and were they stolen or intentionally fed?

i've never seen bones taken out of a dog's digestive tract. socks, underwear, plastic toys, part of a shoe, a batting glove, parts of blankets, half a nylabone, string, plastic flower arrangement, and rocks, yes. oh, and a BB from a bb gun, once (along with the rocks).

the only dog i knew personally who died as a result of food was a dog who choked to death on a boneless chicken breast it stole off the counter. it was DOA when it got to us.
 

PAWZ

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#15
I've been feeding raw for 7 yrs now, my vet tried to disuade me but who can argue with the physical and mental fitness a 13.5 yr old dog that was running fairly competitive agility until this summer? Their sparkling teeth, good skin and coat condition ect. I occasionally feed good quality kibble when I go to out of state agility trials and ALWAYS have to wet it down because unlike their raw food they simply inhale the kibble. When I hand off a foster dog to his new family I tell them about feeding raw and the pluses but always encourage them to make their own decisions. I feed my fosters Solid Gold supplemented with egg, blood (more for flavor than anything else), omegas, yogurt ect.
 

Alex

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#16
I know this will probably start a storm, BUT I can not believe that every vet out there who is against raw, is against it because they sell dog food. Many of them have SEEN, with their own eyes, the damage that a raw diet can do.

I know quite a few vets who are 100% against raw not for the bacteria, but for the damage they have personally seen it do. Bone lodging in the digestive track, owners giving the wrong size to the dog and dog choking or swallowing it whole, and yes, all of these were raw bones. While down at Texas A&M a few month back, I asked as many vets and specialists as I could, and each said the same thing. Strangely enough, many had different reasons why (bacteria, dangerous bones, improper nutrition, over supplementation, and different vitamin deficiencies), but they all had the same conclusion. Don't feed raw.

I get that vets don't know everything. No one does. So, until there is actual proof (and I'm talking SCIENTIFIC evidence. Numerous long term feeding studies with numerous breeds, all producing similar results) I will be sticking to my kibble.
 

sam

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#17
I have never heard of a dog choking to death on kibble, but getting a bone lodged in it's digestive tract is a pretty common occurence.
Dogs choke and net vet car from pieces of rawhide, pigs ears, greenies, peices of toys like tennis balls etc (there's actually an article published that lists the items most commonly surgically removed from dog's GI tracts) Dogs can certainly do serious damage with COOKED bones which splinter, break and form sharp pieces. The raw meaty bones fed by raw feeders are soft, entirely digestible and consumable-- way less risky than those raw hides and toys.

I had to take my dogs to the Emergency vet (a vet with over 20 years experience) for stitches and we ended up talking about diet. He actually asked what I feed, commenting on how healthy Sammy appeared to be.He is not in favor of feeding raw. His concerns were not the bacteria but the bones, but in all his years he has never had problems from a RAW bone, plenty of problems from COOKED bones, rawhides etc. I was actually surprised that the E-vet hadn't seen one case.
 

vanillasugar

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#19
My own vet is open to raw feeding, so long that it has been researched and is being done in a manner that isn't going to cause nutrient deficiencies (which is the negative experience she's had). She knows the benefits that go along with feeding raw properly, and can't deny that, but will disuade people from doing it if she feels they will not put the time into researching it or doing it properly, which in my opinion is perfectly fine. No one should do something like feed raw if they havn't educated themselves on it, and are putting their dog at risk by being stupid.
 
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#20
In all fairness, and not to offend anyone...Vet's have such a limited education as far as nutrition goes that owners are best to do their own research.
Unless said Vet specializes in nutrition studies, they have as little knowledge as or less than our human physicialns do with regards to our nutritional requirements.

The raw battle rages on and I suspect that it will for a good long time. :)
As long as their are bagged foods, company's to research and promote them, dogs who cannot tolerate raw (and some truly can't) and dogs who prove to do extremely well on raw....we need to do what works best for our own..
This bears reading again . . .
 
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