Results of a shock collar on my chihuahua

mrose_s

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#61
I have taken on board all training advice for teaching him to stop when asked. But how would you train a dog to not bark while you are away and can't actually do anything?

At the moment, 3 days a week there is no one here from 8:30am till 2:30pm.
 

Doberluv

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#62
the problem with the above posted method is that my cattle dog mix is too smart for that. You are rewarding him for barking.
Actually, you're simply putting the bark on cue. It's called a DRI (differential reinforcement of an incompatible behavior) It's done all the time by behaviorists and trainers. And it works when it's done correctly and in a systematic way. What you do then, is to reinforce the quiet when cued. The dog then learns the two behaviors on cue, which are mutually exclusive to one another. The dog can't bark if he's being quiet and visa versa. Both are trained in such a way that the dog learns to generalize the behavior in many contexts....gives correct responses backwards and forward, can do it any place, any time.

It's the same thing as teaching a dog to jump and teaching a dog not to jump. Or teaching a dog to stand and teaching a dog to lie down, teaching a dog to wait for his tug toy and teaching him to get his tug toy. Two behaviors, two cues.

If it didn't work on your dog, it is not because the dog is smarter than another. Intelligence has very little to do with it. Doggie zen has more to do with it. Control yourself now and you'll get to bark in a minute after you do what I ask. (And I give you a VERY good reason to do what I ask, a highly profitable one) Come when I call you and THEN you'll get to chase the squirrel. By not doing it, you'll get to do it. Dogs learn some self control this way and you see it applied in all kinds of training tasks once they get use to this kind of learning.

Then, down the road the unwanted behavior is faded because the reinforcer isn't much...not a high value treat like the quieting gets. The opposite...the quiet when cued has a much, much higher pay off than the barking which is interrupted by the cue, once learned. If the dog can't bark, (because of learned cue) he can't be self reinforced for barking. And you see a lot of unnecessary, incessent barking die back. The dog also comes to anticipate the reward for stopping and learns to quiet himself after a few "thank you" barks. A proper reinforcement schedule needs to be installed.

Training using the laws of learning behavior work. That is conclusive. It's done all the time with all kinds of dogs.

As far as aversives, if they don't cause pain, discomfort, fear or some other cause of avoidance, they won't stop a behavior. Something has to either be rewarding or something the dog wants to avoid. I don't care for methods which cause avoidance behaviors in dogs, regardless of what degree of pain they cause. There's too much risk for fall out...to many side effects of avoidance behaviors. If it's a matter of life or death, then you do what ya gotta do at the time. But I see far too often people taking short cuts for lack of incentive to find out how to train their dogs.
 

corgipower

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#63
I have taken on board all training advice for teaching him to stop when asked. But how would you train a dog to not bark while you are away and can't actually do anything?

At the moment, 3 days a week there is no one here from 8:30am till 2:30pm.
Depends on why he's barking. Usually in such cases it's from boredom, in which case a toy filled with treats or a stuffed frozen kong is helpful.

If there's activity (neighbors and such) going on that he's barking at try to keep him somewhere quieter. Sometimes playing some soft music can help. (Or play loud music so the neighbors complain about loud music instead of complaining about barking ;))
 

DanL

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#66
They are great for lazy people who can't be bothered to train properly.
There's a difference between training and behavior modification, genius. I take offense to your comment because we used one to correct a possibly dangerous behavior. We're not teaching our dogs to sit or come with a shock collar.

I take pride in how much we've done with our dogs. Daisy might not have immaculate competition type obedience but she's better than 90% of the dogs out there and she wasn't taught a single thing with any adversive tools. She's got a CGC and will have a TDI as soon as we can get her tested. My GSD has a CGC, and my goal is to have an open level obedience title on him in the next year. Not only does he have good obedience, he's also protection trained. You don't teach that by being lazy, believe me.
 

showdawgz

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#67
Not only does he have good obedience, he's also protection trained. You don't teach that by being lazy, believe me.
:hail:. I must be **** lazy driving 2.5 hours each way to train 2 times a week. Not to mention the countless hours I train each and everyday on my own.
 

corgipower

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#68
You don't teach that by being lazy, believe me.
A CD on one dog, a CDX on another, both with blue ribbons, three dogs certified for narcotics detection, one dog ready to compete in obedience as soon as I finish moving and working on protection sport, one young dog who is a serious problem child but is making some nice progress...yuppers, I used an ecollar for a recall on a dog with a serious crittering problem because I'm lazy.
 

Zoom

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#69
Many people use them to be lazy but not all. I know one trainer who was given a dog to train the basics on in a week and left it all until the last 3 days of the board n' stay and immediately slapped on a prong and e-collar to get the "results". This dog ended up having to be retrained for a recall by a different trainer because "come" made her freeze into place and drop to the ground because of the use of the e-collar on her. So that was pure laziness with an e-collar in action right there.
 

mrose_s

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#70
Depends on why he's barking. Usually in such cases it's from boredom, in which case a toy filled with treats or a stuffed frozen kong is helpful.

If there's activity (neighbors and such) going on that he's barking at try to keep him somewhere quieter. Sometimes playing some soft music can help. (Or play loud music so the neighbors complain about loud music instead of complaining about barking ;))

Thats the problem though, he will find somethign to bark at. A person walking past, the dog next door, the mailman etc.
I would do the kong thing but we can't leave food out while we're gone and expect them not to fight. I could lock him int eh laundry but he'll finish it in a couple of hours then start barking out of boredom. Plus the dogs need the laundry as and extra kennel for if it rains.
Leaving him in the house is out of the question, Mac has to be inside because of issues between her and Harry, plus mum won't let any of them be locked in the house except her because they'll get on the couch.
 
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#71
How about crate training? Put him in a crate in a quiet room with the windows covered, with of course lots of exercise before and after, and a kong or chew bone in the crate while you're gone. And you can close the door to the room if the other dogs cause a problem for the one in the crate.

This set-up certainly seems doable, for six hours three days per week.
 

mrose_s

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#72
We don't own a crate, and our house really just doesn't have room to fit one. Mum wouldn't go along with it anyway. She's anot a fan of crate training.
 

Labra

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#74
[There's a difference between training and behavior modification, genius
Thanks. I know I am a genius. I can't help being a genius, though. Some people are just born that way.

You can't justify electric shocking no matter how you sugar coat it.
 

JennSLK

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#75
Perhaps you should read the entire sentence insted of picking a few words to take any way you want to take them.

You should like your 12. Not a strong footing for your argument.
 

adojrts

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#77
LMAO
Thanks. I know I am a genius. I can't help being a genius, though. Some people are just born that way.

I just love folks that proclaim to be such.....its very much like someone who is insane, they don't know it and think they are normal, while those who claim to be genius really don't know that they really are STUPID.
 

DanL

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#79
It's ok, we all know who can't train their way out of a wet paper bag. It's easy to be an armchair behaviorist and wave a wand of judgement without offering any ideas. Giving a solution would require actual brain wave activity.
 

Labra

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#80
Troll? um, if I wanted to troll a forum, I would. I am not that sad, however. Maybe if I agree with the masses I won't get called a troll.

GO HEAD! train your dog by shocking him with electricity - it works REALLY well!

Get real.

And if some holier than thou wants to make snarky "genius" comments, I'll make them right back.
 
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