Needing All The Advice I Can Get, Please

snorzzz

New Member
Joined
Nov 5, 2005
Messages
67
Likes
0
Points
0
#21
Jack's pal, Buddy.




And the lovely Tubby.:)
 

bubbatd

Moderator
Joined
Nov 28, 2004
Messages
64,812
Likes
1
Points
0
Age
85
#22
My heart bleeds for you !!! He's still just a baby , so you have to decide if you want to put another 6 months into him and then see how things are going . If you're not into it, I'd rehome now . I've never raised a Lab, but my girls have . Retrievers want to please , so if you play hard with them , they want to give it their all . I never overstimulated my dogs . My Chip ( Golden ) was rehomed to me because they felt he needed more interaction! He sure did ! Alot more loving !
 
Joined
Nov 9, 2007
Messages
6,403
Likes
0
Points
0
Location
Central Texas
#23
Yeah, the white paws, I think that might be why the original owners abandoned him. Some labs get white paws, but they are not "desirable". I did some research on labs, and the white paws are somewhat common, but not what most people want in a lab. I originally thought he wasn't a lab, because of the paws, so I was pleased to discover that some labs have those white paws.:)
I've done the research too, and actually white paws are extremely rare. It's more common for black labs to have a small white spot on the back of their foot, but for the whole foot to be white is rare.

If you knew that this puppy came from a lab breeder who you trusted, then I'd say sure, he could be full-blooded lab with white mismarks. But since he was a stray, in an area of the state where there probably isn't a reputable lab breeder and where spay/neuter is extremely optional, AND since he's a puppy and about 60% or more of mix breed puppies at this age look like lab mixes, I'd say with pretty good certainty that he's a mix.

But that doesn't make him less "desirable"! It just is what it is. AND I think there are a lot of people out there who also don't care that he could be a mix.
 

snorzzz

New Member
Joined
Nov 5, 2005
Messages
67
Likes
0
Points
0
#24
I've done the research too, and actually white paws are extremely rare. It's more common for black labs to have a small white spot on the back of their foot, but for the whole foot to be white is rare.
Oh I didn't realize the white paws were rare. Jack also has the white patch on the back of his foot.

If you knew that this puppy came from a lab breeder who you trusted, then I'd say sure, he could be full-blooded lab with white mismarks. But since he was a stray, in an area of the state where there probably isn't a reputable lab breeder and where spay/neuter is extremely optional, AND since he's a puppy and about 60% or more of mix breed puppies at this age look like lab mixes, I'd say with pretty good certainty that he's a mix.

But that doesn't make him less "desirable"! It just is what it is. AND I think there are a lot of people out there who also don't care that he could be a mix.

Yes I'm sure he's a mix, no doubt about it.:) I was just saying, I ruled out "lab" because of the paws, not knowing some labs have white paws. But he's a mix, I'd almost guarantee that. He has a swagger when he walks, like a hound dog.:) But honestly, I've never been around a lab, so I'm not sure exactly what a lab is like, except for what I've read online. And pics I've seen online. I've also looked at a few videos online, just trying to get an idea of the breed. But yeah, I imagine a lot of black puppies have that lab look.

Yes, we have a LOT of strays around here, a lot. It's really sad. I've heard news stories about folks taking their dogs to the pound because of the economy, wow, can you imagine.:( And that's another big reason why I thought it would be nearly impossible to get Jack adopted. When your neighbors are sending their pets to the pound, coz they can't afford to feed them, it's a sad day indeed.
 

Zoom

Twin 2.0
Joined
Jul 11, 2005
Messages
40,739
Likes
3
Points
36
Age
36
Location
Denver, CO
#25
It sounds like Jack is just playing with Buddy like he would any other dog, but because of the size difference, it's not working out so well. I had a foster lab for awhile and she was bigger than my Aussie; you should have seen the wrestling matches they got into! :rofl1:

Labs do want to please their people but they are HARD WORK. They need a LOT of exercise, consistent training and firm rules. You could make this work if you had your heart set on it, it's hard to tell how great a dog will be when it's a young, psychotic puppy. If you want to keep him, find a neighbor to take him for some walks, maybe running once he's older. Playing fetch in the backyard is a good way to burn off some energy and teaching him a bunch of different things works just as well! Mental exercises, especially for puppies, is almost as tiring as running a few miles.

I would look into both you and your hubby (or a helper if you aren't sure if you can manage him on-leash in a class) taking a training class with Jack. This will go a long, long way to making him easier to live with, well, as easy as it ever is having a lab in the house!

While he's young, he will be easier to rehome, but I won't lie. There are thousands of puppies just like him being put down every day because people don't want a "crazy black dog", which is what Labs have gotten the reputation of being.
 

snorzzz

New Member
Joined
Nov 5, 2005
Messages
67
Likes
0
Points
0
#26
My heart bleeds for you !!! He's still just a baby , so you have to decide if you want to put another 6 months into him and then see how things are going . If you're not into it, I'd rehome now . I've never raised a Lab, but my girls have . Retrievers want to please , so if you play hard with them , they want to give it their all . I never overstimulated my dogs . My Chip ( Golden ) was rehomed to me because they felt he needed more interaction! He sure did ! Alot more loving !
Hi bubbatd, thanks for your help.:) Yes, Jack is still in that baby stage, still needs to eat 3 times a day, still takes a morning nap and a long nap in the afternoon. I always tell my hubby, all that napping is when he's busy growing!:D He just got his rabies vac last week.

I'm going to check out those links Lizzy posted, and go from there.
Buddy was still acting odd this morning, wouldn't eat his breakfast, so we're going to take him to the vet just in case something is wrong. (something besides Jack running him nuts)
 

snorzzz

New Member
Joined
Nov 5, 2005
Messages
67
Likes
0
Points
0
#27
It sounds like Jack is just playing with Buddy like he would any other dog, but because of the size difference, it's not working out so well. I had a foster lab for awhile and she was bigger than my Aussie; you should have seen the wrestling matches they got into! :rofl1:

Labs do want to please their people but they are HARD WORK. They need a LOT of exercise, consistent training and firm rules. You could make this work if you had your heart set on it, it's hard to tell how great a dog will be when it's a young, psychotic puppy. If you want to keep him, find a neighbor to take him for some walks, maybe running once he's older. Playing fetch in the backyard is a good way to burn off some energy and teaching him a bunch of different things works just as well! Mental exercises, especially for puppies, is almost as tiring as running a few miles.

I would look into both you and your hubby (or a helper if you aren't sure if you can manage him on-leash in a class) taking a training class with Jack. This will go a long, long way to making him easier to live with, well, as easy as it ever is having a lab in the house!

While he's young, he will be easier to rehome, but I won't lie. There are thousands of puppies just like him being put down every day because people don't want a "crazy black dog", which is what Labs have gotten the reputation of being.
Yes, that's what I keep hearing, especially around here, we have a lot of dogs get put down. My local online newspaper posts pics of dogs up for adoption, dogs at the humane society, and the other day they had 6 litters of pups. I didn't look at them, but I imagine there were quite a few little black pups.

I haven't checked into training classes, but have thought about it. Whether we keep him or not, he could sure use some training!:D I'm proud to say he is completely housebroken, and has been for more than a month. Not even an accident in a long time.:) The biggest problem we have is the biting, but he is improving slowly but surely. He doesn't give kisses, doesn't lick people at all, which seems odd. But he was taken away from his mom very young, too young.
 

snorzzz

New Member
Joined
Nov 5, 2005
Messages
67
Likes
0
Points
0
#29
Hi Lizzy, thanks for asking.:) Welp, I think I made a discovery.:)

The week that was SO BAD, and after that, I noticed things weren't so bad...
hmmmm.......

I put 2 and 2 together, and realized the real reason things were so bad was
because my hubby was home for a week. He had the week off work.
That was when everything went totally insane. But I didn't have a clue as to why.

But this week, he went back to work, and I noticed all the dogs were VERY calm....

Everyone got along, everyone took nice naps, no fighting, no "arguements".
Remarkably peaceful household. I've been watching everything very closely.

So now I am thinking we had a horrible case of jealousy.
Buddy is madly in love with my hubby, and he couldn't cope with my hubby
giving Jack attention. Buddy thinks he "owns" my hubby, and so he was
distraught and confused as to why HE wasn't the center of attention, as he
has always been.

And at the same time, Jack was jealous of Buddy, trying to dominate Buddy,
trying to be "the top dog".

Hubby went back to work 7-6-09, last Monday, and I immediately noticed
how calm things were. But when hubby got home that night, things began to
get ruff again, so I told my hubby my thoughts about everything.
I told him, when the dogs began to get aggressive, "this doesn't happen when you aren't here".

So, sure enough, there is a pattern to this.
I don't understand it completely, but enough to know it CAN be solved without
having to rehome Jack.
That is my thoughts as of today.:) Hopefully, I can keep Jack.

He and Buddy have been playing nicely, with hardly any problems.
So I really think it was because my hubby was home for a solid week,
something the dogs weren't used to, and something that caused them to
go haywire. Keeping my fingers crossed about this.
 
Joined
Nov 9, 2007
Messages
6,403
Likes
0
Points
0
Location
Central Texas
#30
I'm glad that you found what appears to be the cause of the problems between Jack and Buddy. But you still have some major problems with this situation:

1. Jack is very young. Young puppies tend to get along with other dogs better than adolescent dogs, and if enemies are made during adolescence, they tend to last. Adult dogs are more tolerant of young puppies, but when Jack hits about 7-9 months old, he will be like a teenager - full of hormones, rebelleous, will "forget" ALL of the training and rules you have set up throughout his life. This is also the time when adult dogs stop tolerating puppies. So Jack will be difficult, and Buddy will stop putting up with it.

2. I'm assuming that your husband will be retiring within the next few years? Given their ages and breeds, Jack and Buddy should both be around for the next 10 years or more. If your husband plans to retire - and be home more - within that next 10 years.... AND if you're right in thinking that him being gone prevents the problems.... then you could have a problem somewhere down the line. I don't think that sending your husband to work every day for the rest of your dogs' lives is a permanant solution. ;)

3. Jack is still a young puppy, and needs a lot of mental and physical stimulation, as well as socialization. You mentioned earlier that you cannot handle him, so I'm wondering if you will be able to handle giving him the stimulation and socialization that he needs.... And if not, if your husband will be able to.


Good luck.
 

snorzzz

New Member
Joined
Nov 5, 2005
Messages
67
Likes
0
Points
0
#31
I'm glad that you found what appears to be the cause of the problems between Jack and Buddy. But you still have some major problems with this situation:

1. Jack is very young. Young puppies tend to get along with other dogs better than adolescent dogs, and if enemies are made during adolescence, they tend to last. Adult dogs are more tolerant of young puppies, but when Jack hits about 7-9 months old, he will be like a teenager - full of hormones, rebelleous, will "forget" ALL of the training and rules you have set up throughout his life. This is also the time when adult dogs stop tolerating puppies. So Jack will be difficult, and Buddy will stop putting up with it.
Lizzy, thanks for telling me that, coz I didn't know.:( I was assuming things would continue to improve as Jack got older. I knew when the hormones kick in he might want to roam, and I've been concerned he might dig out under the fence at that time.(We live on a busy highway). Truthfully, he already tends to be rebellious. He delights in doing things he's not supposed to do, then running away with a "nah nah nah-nah nah" attitude, just like a 2 yr old child. It's really cute and we all laugh, coz it's like he has this adorable sense of humor. But I know it will cease to be funny when he is full grown and disobeys.


2. I'm assuming that your husband will be retiring within the next few years? Given their ages and breeds, Jack and Buddy should both be around for the next 10 years or more. If your husband plans to retire - and be home more - within that next 10 years.... AND if you're right in thinking that him being gone prevents the problems.... then you could have a problem somewhere down the line. I don't think that sending your husband to work every day for the rest of your dogs' lives is a permanant solution. ;)

3. Jack is still a young puppy, and needs a lot of mental and physical stimulation, as well as socialization. You mentioned earlier that you cannot handle him, so I'm wondering if you will be able to handle giving him the stimulation and socialization that he needs.... And if not, if your husband will be able to.


Good luck.
Yes, I thought about these things after I posted last night.
And these are the things that cause me the greatest concern. We can handle things today and tomorrow, and probably even for a few years. But when looking down the road 5 years from now, 10 years from now, things get really scary and quite gloomy.

My husband is 60 yrs old, and his health is not too good.
His father and grandfathers all died by the ages of 66.
As it stands now, he is in need of a major surgery, possibly two major surgeries.

So to be quite honest, neither of us might live another 10 years.
And if our health fails, we might find ourselves having to rehome Jack when he is a 5 yr old. Something that might be almost impossible. I think Buddy would be easy to rehome, coz he's little and doesn't need a big backyard. And Tubby is already old, so I feel pretty positive we will outlive her, barring any catastrophies. But Jack, I worry about. I have seen situations where someone dies and their beloved dog gets taken to the pound.

I have already noticed, just the last couple of days, Jack is now almost stronger than me. While I'm sitting in a chair eating a snack, Jack jumps up into my lap, something he knows he's not supposed to do. I take my hand and try to push him away, and he's not budging. It's like I'm trying to push against a 200 lb. weight that's not moving one inch. So then I give it all my effort, saying "down Jack, down", and he finally gets down and behaves.

So yes, I still have some very serious concerns. I've always been the type to take things "one day at a time", and not look too far down the road. And I notice my post has a lot of "ifs, maybes and mights". So I find I am still at a crossroads. The easy thing is to keep Jack, and let tomorrow take care of tomorrow. But I can't help but think, that might not be the best thing for Jack. And might not be the best thing for me and my husband.

Thanks so much for your help Lizzy, it means a lot to me.
My husband doesn't really share my concerns, so I don't really have anyone to talk to about it. Just last night, I tried talking to him about it, and he said "Oh Jack is not going anywhere". It's because he knows I'm crazy about Jack, I love every inch of him. But he's not thinking down the road about it.
 
Last edited:

Lizmo

Water Junkie
Joined
Aug 1, 2006
Messages
17,300
Likes
0
Points
0
Location
AL
#35
Lizmo - are you stalking a new poster? That isn't nice, you know!

How weird would that be if it's the dog you've seen?
Yes. It's secretly my addiction to stalk new posters. ;) Except, this one has been a member since 2005. :rofl1:

Yeah, it's going to be way weird. Because that means they live less than 10 miles from me. . . .
 

snorzzz

New Member
Joined
Nov 5, 2005
Messages
67
Likes
0
Points
0
#37
Yes. It's secretly my addiction to stalk new posters. ;) Except, this one has been a member since 2005. :rofl1:

Yeah, it's going to be way weird. Because that means they live less than 10 miles from me. . . .
LOL, yes, I've been a member for a while, not much of a poster tho, but I read here a lot.:)

Where do you live? Coz I think you are a neighbor!
 

snorzzz

New Member
Joined
Nov 5, 2005
Messages
67
Likes
0
Points
0
#40
Okay seriously, this isn't creepy at all. This dog looks like one I've seen near a church yard. :eek:
LOL, well, we've had Tubby for over a year now, since March of '08. :)

As I write this, she is very contently chewing on miss piggy.
That's what we call her pig ear, miss piggy.:D
 
Top