Nancy Grace has gone too far

B

Bobsk8

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THAT is what I stated.

How you got:


from what I stated I am unsure.

I don't wish to argue this. But you are stating my story has changed when it has not. I just went into more depth since it was questioned. You are implying that I have changed my story and I have not. YOU are the one changing my "story".

You do not know me. You do not know my experience. Yet you keep assuming.

Anyways, as this has gone far away from what I intended with my first post in this thread, I'm done. You believe what you'd like, and I'll believe what I'd like.
If I was trying to get someone to understand a situation and not jump to a conclusion which would seem obvious by what I wrote, I would describe the situation in detail. I thought the same thing when I read your initial post on the event. wondering why on earth someone would walk up to a chained Pit Bull without the owner there and take it off the leash :yikes: The conclusion that most people would reach by reading your initial post on the subject would probably be totally different after reading your revised " explanation" of your first post.
 

tempura tantrum

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You can post your experiences anytime you want and others should read them. They can only read what you post and when it keeps changing your inexperience shows
LOL. Here it goes again. The old "your story is changing!!!" tactic.

I'm pretty sure anyone with a vague mastery of reading comprehension could see that Shadow didn't CHANGE her story- she simply elaborated upon it after YOU made an assumption about it. (And you know what they say about assumptions...). Don't get your knickers in a twist, Pancho. She went into more detail when it was clear you had misread her. That's it. Nothing malicious.
 

pancho

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THAT is what I stated.

How you got:


from what I stated I am unsure.

I don't wish to argue this. But you are stating my story has changed when it has not. I just went into more depth since it was questioned. You are implying that I have changed my story and I have not. YOU are the one changing my "story".

You do not know me. You do not know my experience. Yet you keep assuming.

Anyways, as this has gone far away from what I intended with my first post in this thread, I'm done. You believe what you'd like, and I'll believe what I'd like.
No, you are mistaken again. I stated many times most people will make decisions and form opinions with having little real experience with pit bulls. You are making decisions and forming opinions on the actions of a single dog which may or may not be a pit bull. You do not know the breeding behind the dog as you said he was a strange dog.
You are doing like many do, making a decision and forming an opinion with no real research, experience, knowledge, or background training. You are free to do that. Just like others make the decision to ban the breed by forming an opinion with no real knowledge.
It has been stated many times education is the key. Experience with one dog is not knowledge or experience.
 
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Bobsk8

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LOL. Here it goes again. The old "your story is changing!!!" tactic.

I'm pretty sure anyone with a vague mastery of reading comprehension could see that Shadow didn't CHANGE her story- she simply elaborated upon it after YOU made an assumption about it. (And you know what they say about assumptions...). Don't get your knickers in a twist, Pancho. She went into more detail when it was clear you had misread her. That's it. Nothing malicious.
I don't think it is Pancho that needs refreshing of his reading comprehension skills, but rather the person that read that post and determined anything other than someone releasing a Pit Bull from it's chain without the owner around which isn't very bright. When the OP on the topic was questioned, then a more understandable description of the event was posted.
 

pancho

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LOL. Here it goes again. The old "your story is changing!!!" tactic.

I'm pretty sure anyone with a vague mastery of reading comprehension could see that Shadow didn't CHANGE her story- she simply elaborated upon it after YOU made an assumption about it. (And you know what they say about assumptions...). Don't get your knickers in a twist, Pancho. She went into more detail when it was clear you had misread her. That's it. Nothing malicious.
Maybe you forgot to read all of the other posts. I stated she had no real experience or knowledge about the breed. She posted an experience with one dog which may or may not have been a pit bull. She doesn't know as she knew nothing abou the dog, remember a strange dog. Who knows if it was really a pit bull or some ones lab. She formed her opinion on what happened with a single questionable dog. She then cannot understand when others do the same thing but come up with an opinion that differs from hers.

I do understand those who have little or no real experience would consider this to be an example of how all pit bulls will act. That is the reason experience, education, and knowledge is needed so much.

You cannot form an opinion on the experience with one strange dog. Some may and will post about it and will have others go along with it. That is the difference in real experience, education, and knowledge about the breed in question.
 

Buddy'sParents

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I don't think it is Pancho that needs refreshing of his reading comprehension skills, but rather the person that read that post and determined anything other than someone releasing a Pit Bull from it's chain without the owner around which isn't very bright. When the OP on the topic was questioned, then a more understandable description of the event was posted.
You're obviously not giving Shadow enough credit... she's someone who knows what she is doing and has experience behind her.. i doubt anyone with a BRAIN would just walk right up to a pit bull on a chain without taking precautions first.

Why all of the personal attacks? This thread is so irritating. All you guys are doing is going round and round and some of you are really going above and beyond with the ASSumptions.

And since when does any member here have to prove anything to anyone? No one is ever going to agree about pit bulls... never.. too many ignorant uneducated people, yes, that's right, ignorant, uneducated people that just take what the media says and runs with it and doesn't bother to try to change anything, just bitch about it all. Try making a difference and then complain about it not working... don't just sit there and complain and demonize all bullies without making an attempt to correct the situation.
 

tempura tantrum

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When the OP on the topic was questioned, then a more understandable description of the event was posted.
Bob- he considerered her "more understandable description of events" CHANGING her story. THAT is what I was talking about. Simply elaborating upon a situation so that someone may better understand where you are coming from is not CHANGING a story. It doesn't make the events that occurred different. It's all very human not to include details (sometimes even important ones) in a story jotted off quickly on a message board. We don't have editors telling us "hey- you might want to better elaborate on this so the other board readers really understand where you're coming from."

And that's why it's important not to make assumptions about things that you have no information about. An example you might understand: it's silly for people to make assumptions that your dog is a Pitbull- they have no way of proving it.

It makes a LOT more sense to ASK for an explanation- rather than to just throw up one's hands and say "oooh you're a liar!"
 

Amstaffer

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I don't think you addressed any of the points that Pancho made. So I will repeat the question, who is going to determine who is fit and who isn't to get a Pit Bull. Are you going to go into the inner city yourself and walk up to a gang member and tell them they can't have a Pit Bull because you decided they weren't worthy of it?

And by the way, I think your use of foul language on this forum where kids view the posts, speaks volumes about where your head is at......
I thought I was clear but I'll put it in a more obivious fashion. I said the same person who regulates everything else that is restricted (Guns, DL, professional licenses...) The government. If you are required a license to own a dog (like you do to open a restraunt) and you are walking your dog and a police officer asks to see your license and you don't have one...you get a ticket. If the police come to your house because of some "dog" issue (barking, running of leash etc...)You recieve a ticket...and eventually you will lose your right to own a dog...just like a DL. Eventually you will chase the bad owners out of the dog owning business if they spend too much money or spend time in jail.

I think the answer is to address the problem (people) not the victim (the dog). I don't believe we should run from the issue because some good ole boys don't want to enforce the laws, who says they would enforce BSLs?

My use of foul language? "Proverbial balls" if the child knows what the world proverbial means then the impact of the statement will have little impact on their development.

Your attempted attack on my character says volumes about your arguement.....

Would I go to a "Thugs" house to tell him No? Heck yes is a heartbeat. I have worked in the Prison system, as a Probation and Parole officer and now work at a inner city school where I work with "Thugs" everyday and have been assaulted by thugs for telling them they are late to class. I am a firm believer in the fact that if you don't enforce rules because of your own fear then the bad guys win and chaos rules.
 

pancho

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You're obviously not giving Shadow enough credit... she's someone who knows what she is doing and has experience behind her.. i doubt anyone with a BRAIN would just walk right up to a pit bull on a chain without taking precautions first.

Why all of the personal attacks? This thread is so irritating. All you guys are doing is going round and round and some of you are really going above and beyond with the ASSumptions.

Bring something new to the table or leave. Please.
We are reading what Shadow posted, nothing more or less.
For those with real experience with pit bulls what she posted would show no experience or knowledge about the breed, or with any other breed besides a lap dog.
Those who have little experience or knowledge with the breed in question, pit bull, will not understand.

You are the one posting anyone with a brain would not walk up to a pit bull on a chain. We just said inexperienced and not knowledgeable. You added the last bit. That may be your opinion, you must know Shadow better than some of the other posters so that is between you and Shadow.
I do not know Shadow and just state it shows inexperience and little knowledge about the pit bull.
 

tempura tantrum

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Maybe you forgot to read all of the other posts. I stated she had no real experience or knowledge about the breed. She posted an experience with one dog which may or may not have been a pit bull. She doesn't know as she knew nothing abou the dog, remember a strange dog. Who knows if it was really a pit bull or some ones lab. She formed her opinion on what happened with a single questionable dog. She then cannot understand when others do the same thing but come up with an opinion that differs from hers.

I do understand those who have little or no real experience would consider this to be an example of how all pit bulls will act. That is the reason experience, education, and knowledge is needed so much.

You cannot form an opinion on the experience with one strange dog. Some may and will post about it and will have others go along with it. That is the difference in real experience, education, and knowledge about the breed in question.
I'm not sure where you found it in my posts that I was saying she had a lot of experience with pitties.

What I WAS saying (and nothing more), is that you have a tendency to assume that any information not included in a first post, and then subsequently added at a later date to clear up a misunderstanding, must mean that the poster is lying or changing their story. That's a silly (and arrogant) way to operate.

And I'm not sure where you got the idea that she had experience with only ONE pitbull. The fact that she chose to WRITE ABOUT one experience is very different than JUST having one. BTW- I'm not arguing that she has a ton of experience either. Merely that your word choice is either very poor or just purposely designed to inflame.

OT but oh well- I love this statement and have to agree.

My use of foul language? "Proverbial balls" if the child knows what the world proverbial means then the impact of the statement will have little impact on their development.
LOL.

Was there a time when the word "balls" was EVER considered foul language? I doubt any child surfing a thread about Nancy Grace and Pitbulls is going to have their fragile little mind warped by reading the word "balls."
 
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Buddy'sParents

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You're obviously not giving Shadow enough credit... she's someone who knows what she is doing and has experience behind her.. i doubt anyone with a BRAIN would just walk right up to a pit bull on a chain without taking precautions first.

Why all of the personal attacks? This thread is so irritating. All you guys are doing is going round and round and some of you are really going above and beyond with the ASSumptions.

And since when does any member here have to prove anything to anyone? No one is ever going to agree about pit bulls... never.. too many ignorant uneducated people, yes, that's right, ignorant, uneducated people that just take what the media says and runs with it and doesn't bother to try to change anything, just bitch about it all. Try making a difference and then complain about it not working... don't just sit there and complain and demonize all bullies without making an attempt to correct the situation.
Because people seem to like to skip through posts and not read them in their entirity.. I felt I should post this again, with emphasis.
 

pancho

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I thought I was clear but I'll put it in a more obivious fashion. I said the same person who regulates everything else that is restricted (Guns, DL, professional licenses...) The government. If you are required a license to own a dog (like you do to open a restraunt) and you are walking your dog and a police officer asks to see your license and you don't have one...you get a ticket. If the police come to your house because of some "dog" issue (barking, running of leash etc...)You recieve a ticket...and eventually you will lose your right to own a dog...just like a DL. Eventually you will chase the bad owners out of the dog owning business if they spend too much money or spend time in jail.

I think the answer is to address the problem (people) not the victim (the dog). I don't believe we should run from the issue because some good ole boys don't want to enforce the laws, who says they would enforce BSLs?

My use of foul language? "Proverbial balls" if the child knows what the world proverbial means then the impact of the statement will have little impact on their development.

Your attempted attack on my character says volumes about your arguement.....

Would I go to a "Thugs" house to tell him No? Heck yes is a heartbeat. I have worked in the Prison system, as a Probation and Parole officer and now work at a inner city school where I work with "Thugs" everyday and have been assaulted by thugs for telling them they are late to class. I am a firm believer in the fact that if you don't enforce rules because of your own fear then the bad guys win and chaos rules.
I am sure you already know most of the pit bulls bred and raised are out of all city limits. Most are out in the country where there are no leash laws. Many of the dogs are given shots by their owners. Most of the vet work is done by the owners. Any law that you can pass will not change these breeders as not many even know they existed.
Take the man in Texas who was killed by robbers and almost all of his 300-500 dogs put to sleep. How many even knew he had dogs. How many people who think they can breed a more gentle non aggressive pit bull will breed anywhere the number of dogs he would have bred in a single year. How can the breed be selective bred for gentle non aggressive dogs when there are people doing the same as that man did. Most of the people who have hopes of the pit bull being selective bred down do not breed. How is it supposed to happen when those who want a bred down dog do not breed and those who want a more aggressive dog will possibly breed several hundred or more a year?

You can't go to some ones house and tell them they cannot have a dog, it doesn't matter if you are right or wrong, you are a citizen just the same as they are and they have the same freedoms you enjoy.

Don't worry about the language. If they know what you were talking about there is no damage done and if they don't know it won't stunt their growth.
 
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Experience with one dog is not knowledge or experience.

Pancho, grab your glasses. Re-read my posts. Take it slow, like one word at a time and really absorb it. You will see you are ASSUMING incorrectly as it has been posted that I have owned as well as fostered pit bulls in the past.
 

ToscasMom

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I'm reading all of this with great interest because I am heavily involved in local politics and I think my city is very close to a pit bull law since the last episode where a pit bull was walking on a leash with its owner and attacked a pedestrian. The owner could not get the dog off the guy and it took a couple of other people to help to do it. The elderly man who was attacked said the dog came sniffed him in a friendly way and then attacked him. He had some pretty bad injuries, regards himself as grateful to be alive, but is screaming for a law banning pit bulls. The owner, who was entirely shocked that it happened, had the dog put down. This was a dog that lived with his family, kids etc. and had never shown any aggression to humans at all. The owner was very choked up and I felt as sorry for him as I did for the victim. But his dog had to go, as you well know.

We've had some pretty awful maimings here and the patience seems to have ended. One young boy got attacked in his own yard by a neighbor's pit bull, and his face was destroyed. The owners ultimately hid the dog in another state after it was ordered euthanized, and took their fines. They weren't going to put the dog down even though it had literally destroyed this young boy's face. This didn't go very far toward improving public image. The incident happened two years ago and the public is still angry over what those owners did.

Where I live, it seems that just when it calms down, another one occurs. I know one guy who sprayed a loose pit bull and clubbed him on the head with a tieout stake and the dog hadn't even attacked. He said he wasn't going to wait and see. This is a pit bull that the owner says is "friendly" and accidently got out of the yard, which is possible--things like that can happen, but it doesn't seem to be excusable when it's a pitbull with the history around here. We have also an increasing number of complaints from homeowners trying to rent apartments and potential tenants refusing to move in or moving out because of the pit bull in the yard next door or nearby. The dogs don't even have to be doing anything, just the sight of them scares people off because it has reached a point where everybody knows somebody by name who has been attacked or terrified. Not too long ago, a pit bull was shot on sight by a police officer after complaints he was loose and scaring people.

I really don't think any laws that punish people after the injury or death is going to continue to be acceptable to the communities that are pushing toward bans. It's just not a safe enough idea to the public at large. I myself only know one pit bull personally and he's a nice dog but I cannot bring my dog over to my friend's house because he is extremely dog aggressive. So I just don't do it, but I would imagine that if he ever got loose by accident he would easily kill someone's dog or cat. I know that her neighbors are skittish about it. The only other experience I had was last summer when some nutball had two young pit bulls tied on chains behind where I live, rain or shine. They howled all night and snapped at each other and got meaner and meaner as the summer wore on. One got loose and bit a child and was taken away. Shortly after, the dog control people took the other one. I really felt sorry for these dogs and actually thought of helping them a few times, but too be honest, I was too afraid to go near them and even more fearful for my own puppy if they broke into my yard. Every time my dog went into the yard they would start barking violently and they couldn't even see onto my land; it was very scarey. I had the distinct feeling they wanted my puppy, if you get my drift. I had a very uncomfortable summer because of it and was hovering over my puppy ad nauseum whenever she was in my yard. Now I could have been way off base, you see? But the truth is, people are afraid of them because of the incidents they know of, and it makes them shiver at the thought that a pit bull might be in their vicinity. I see the kind of public reaction you might see if a convicted child molester move into the area. The hysteria is that great.

I do think these chained dogs I mentioned did not come to a happy ending, and I feel terrifically guilty about it because of my mixed feelings. On one hand I felt sorry for them and on the other hand I am just glad they are gone because they pose no danger to me or my dog. Talk about terrible mixed feelings, hey?

Talking about banning people in different categories is never going to be a good analogy because in all civilized countries, people will always have more rights than pets. This is a hard thing to face, especially since I personally love my dog more than I love most people I know. But it's a fact nonetheless. We can never attach the same rights to our pets as is attached to the public at large, and yes, that even includes the pedophile that you might be forced to live with in your town. The constitution simply does not apply to our dogs, and so it is incumbent upon us to pay the piper if one of our beloved pets violates the rules set forth by people.

My thoughts here give you a good indicator of how the general public who never owned a pit bull feels about pit bulls. Educating them to not look them in the eye, and to freeze and do all those other things that are suggested won't work. It only invokes MORE fear. People do not want to hear what THEY must do to cohabitat with pit bulls and that really has to be acknowledged. Most people that see a loose pit bull or even one on a leash coming towards them want him gone any way it can happen. It's just a survival instinct kicking in, you see. People at large don't stop to think about whose fault it is, how it's not the dog's fault, how the owner may or may not be responsible, whether they are trained or not trained. They simply want the object of their fear to no longer be there. We have to face that we are a society that puts people before dogs and adjust accordingly. If it comes down to public safety or somebody's pet, there is no question which will win out. Yelling at people about it and telling them they are ignorant or that we need to educate people while the problem still looms isn't really going to make the public as a whole feel warmer or more fuzzy about this problem. It only exacerbates it, attaching pit bull ownership in the same category as pit bulls. I'm sure that all of you are wonderful people who love your dogs as much as I love mine. But I honestly don't think that the woman who emotionally posted on this thread wants to meet anybody else's sweet lovable pit bull after she watched her own dog being ripped apart in front of her. Being sensitive to this would really go a long long way. I realize that you love your dogs, and your dog wasn't the pit bull who did this. But just try for a minute to put yourself in her place and can you really blame her? I could almost see her crying while she typed what happened.

I hope I have given you some light on what is really going on in the minds of the great majority of people around you, all of the ignorant of pit bull ownership as I am. That is my real intent here. I deliberately chose a breed that would not impact my ability to have property and liability insurance. I also chose a dog that is not very popular. Maybe these things were in the back of my mind at the time I was making my choices, but I do know that I am very grateful that my breed is not very high on the popularity list. I recognize that one day that could change and I dread the thought. So I do not want you to think I do not feel for those of you who own and love pit bulls. I just want to put a more realistic paint on the picture of what the public is thinking all around you.

Love,
Your Dead Messenger.
 

pancho

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I agree with your post.

However, something for everyone to chew on....

Perhaps no other breed experiences such a division of owners as pit bulls.
Yes, every breed has bad owners, but Pit Bull owners can be divided into two branches. The fighters/status symbol seekers who only value the bad of the breed, and the true pit bull fanatic who loves them for their good qualities.

The good owners are not causing BSL. The good owners are not letting their dogs run amok. The good owners are raising and training wonderful representatives of their breed.

BUT, the bad owners are damaging all of this. BSL is not going to solve this because these types of owners already disregard the law...Do the lawmakers actually think they are going to bow down to BSL and stop owning their man made timebombs?

I've seen a video (a horrible, horrible video) about pit bull fighting. Dogs that don't make the grade are either "plugged" or otherwise killed inhumanely, or set free on the streets, damaged and mentally ruined by the "life" they have lived. I'm sure once forced to survive in the wild, they begin to become aggressive, fearful and problematic. This can't help the bite statistics.

I have met pit bull after pit bull and even the toughest one I ever met softened up to me in no time and even allowed me to get him off of his chain and play with him. I don't understand the irrationality of fearing or hating a breed. It's been stated before that all breeds are capable of killing. Why single out a breed when it's the owners who are perpetuating this cycle.

And I'll echo the sentiments that dog aggression don't mean jack squat in the people aggression argument.
Above is the post we have been talking about.
Now where does it state how well prepared she was when she removed the chain off of the toughest pit bull she had ever met? Where does it state she even knew for certain that the dog was really a pit bull?
She states she has seen (one) video of a dog fight. A horrible horrible video. She goes on to state that the dogs that do not make the grade are "plugger", this is a made up word, not something a dog fighter does. She also states the dogs are let free to roam the streets. These are the words PETA used when asking for money. Words and actions they have made up to get a few more $$$.
Can anyone tell the rest of us the name of a real fighting dog that has been found roaming and attacked a person. The names are really well known. Just gives us a single name. How about the name of any known dog fighter that has "plugged" a dog. It must be a common practice so would some one put a name?
You also notice she has met pit bull after pit bull but does she own a pit bull and how many has she ever owned.
How many on here have ever really been attacked by a pit bull? Do you think those who have been attacked would call the attack experience with pit bulls?
 

pancho

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I'm reading all of this with great interest because I am heavily involved in local politics and I think my city is very close to a pit bull law since the last episode where a pit bull was walking on a leash with its owner and attacked a pedestrian. The owner could not get the dog off the guy and it took a couple of other people to help to do it. The elderly man who was attacked said the dog came sniffed him in a friendly way and then attacked him. He had some pretty bad injuries, regards himself as grateful to be alive, but is screaming for a law banning pit bulls. The owner, who was entirely shocked that it happened, had the dog put down. This was a dog that lived with his family, kids etc. and had never shown any aggression to humans at all. The owner was very choked up and I felt as sorry for him as I did for the victim. But his dog had to go, as you well know.

We've had some pretty awful maimings here and the patience seems to have ended. One young boy got attacked in his own yard by a neighbor's pit bull, and his face was destroyed. The owners ultimately hid the dog in another state after it was ordered euthanized, and took their fines. They weren't going to put the dog down even though it had literally destroyed this young boy's face. This didn't go very far toward improving public image. The incident happened two years ago and the public is still angry over what those owners did.

Where I live, it seems that just when it calms down, another one occurs. I know one guy who sprayed a loose pit bull and clubbed him on the head with a tieout stake and the dog hadn't even attacked. He said he wasn't going to wait and see. This is a pit bull that the owner says is "friendly" and accidently got out of the yard, which is possible--things like that can happen, but it doesn't seem to be excusable when it's a pitbull with the history around here. We have also an increasing number of complaints from homeowners trying to rent apartments and potential tenants refusing to move in or moving out because of the pit bull in the yard next door or nearby. The dogs don't even have to be doing anything, just the sight of them scares people off because it has reached a point where everybody knows somebody by name who has been attacked or terrified. Not too long ago, a pit bull was shot on sight by a police officer after complaints he was loose and scaring people.

I really don't think any laws that punish people after the injury or death is going to continue to be acceptable to the communities that are pushing toward bans. It's just not a safe enough idea to the public at large. I myself only know one pit bull personally and he's a nice dog but I cannot bring my dog over to my friend's house because he is extremely dog aggressive. So I just don't do it, but I would imagine that if he ever got loose by accident he would easily kill someone's dog or cat. I know that her neighbors are skittish about it. The only other experience I had was last summer when some nutball had two young pit bulls tied on chains behind where I live, rain or shine. They howled all night and snapped at each other and got meaner and meaner as the summer wore on. One got loose and bit a child and was taken away. Shortly after, the dog control people took the other one. I really felt sorry for these dogs and actually thought of helping them a few times, but too be honest, I was too afraid to go near them and even more fearful for my own puppy if they broke into my yard. Every time my dog went into the yard they would start barking violently and they couldn't even see onto my land; it was very scarey. I had the distinct feeling they wanted my puppy, if you get my drift. I had a very uncomfortable summer because of it and was hovering over my puppy ad nauseum whenever she was in my yard. Now I could have been way off base, you see? But the truth is, people are afraid of them because of the incidents they know of, and it makes them shiver at the thought that a pit bull might be in their vicinity. I see the kind of public reaction you might see if a convicted child molester move into the area. The hysteria is that great.

I do think these chained dogs I mentioned did not come to a happy ending, and I feel terrifically guilty about it because of my mixed feelings. On one hand I felt sorry for them and on the other hand I am just glad they are gone because they pose no danger to me or my dog. Talk about terrible mixed feelings, hey?

Talking about banning people in different categories is never going to be a good analogy because in all civilized countries, people will always have more rights than pets. This is a hard thing to face, especially since I personally love my dog more than I love most people I know. But it's a fact nonetheless. We can never attach the same rights to our pets as is attached to the public at large, and yes, that even includes the pedophile that you might be forced to live with in your town. The constitution simply does not apply to our dogs, and so it is incumbent upon us to pay the piper if one of our beloved pets violates the rules set forth by people.

My thoughts here give you a good indicator of how the general public who never owned a pit bull feels about pit bulls. Educating them to not look them in the eye, and to freeze and do all those other things that are suggested won't work. It only invokes MORE fear. People do not want to hear what THEY must do to cohabitat with pit bulls and that really has to be acknowledged. Most people that see a loose pit bull or even one on a leash coming towards them want him gone any way it can happen. It's just a survival instinct kicking in, you see. People at large don't stop to think about whose fault it is, how it's not the dog's fault, how the owner may or may not be responsible, whether they are trained or not trained. They simply want the object of their fear to no longer be there. We have to face that we are a society that puts people before dogs and adjust accordingly. If it comes down to public safety or somebody's pet, there is no question which will win out. Yelling at people about it and telling them they are ignorant or that we need to educate people while the problem still looms isn't really going to make the public as a whole feel warmer or more fuzzy about this problem. It only exacerbates it, attaching pit bull ownership in the same category as pit bulls. I'm sure that all of you are wonderful people who love your dogs as much as I love mine. But I honestly don't think that the woman who emotionally posted on this thread wants to meet anybody else's sweet lovable pit bull after she watched her own dog being ripped apart in front of her. Being sensitive to this would really go a long long way. I realize that you love your dogs, and your dog wasn't the pit bull who did this. But just try for a minute to put yourself in her place and can you really blame her? I could almost see her crying while she typed what happened.

I hope I have given you some light on what is really going on in the minds of the great majority of people around you, all of the ignorant of pit bull ownership as I am. That is my real intent here. I deliberately chose a breed that would not impact my ability to have property and liability insurance. I also chose a dog that is not very popular. Maybe these things were in the back of my mind at the time I was making my choices, but I do know that I am very grateful that my breed is not very high on the popularity list. I recognize that one day that could change and I dread the thought. So I do not want you to think I do not feel for those of you who own and love pit bulls. I just want to put a more realistic paint on the picture of what the public is thinking all around you.

Love,
Your Dead Messenger.
Thank you for a very good post. I can't remember a more thought out and more educational post. You have stated the thoughts of the majority of people without blaming others. Hopefully all will read and try to understand.
 
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Above is the post we have been talking about.
Now where does it state how well prepared she was when she removed the chain off of the toughest pit bull she had ever met? Where does it state she even knew for certain that the dog was really a pit bull?
She states she has seen (one) video of a dog fight. A horrible horrible video. She goes on to state that the dogs that do not make the grade are "plugger", this is a made up word, not something a dog fighter does. She also states the dogs are let free to roam the streets. These are the words PETA used when asking for money. Words and actions they have made up to get a few more $$$.
Can anyone tell the rest of us the name of a real fighting dog that has been found roaming and attacked a person. The names are really well known. Just gives us a single name. How about the name of any known dog fighter that has "plugged" a dog. It must be a common practice so would some one put a name?
You also notice she has met pit bull after pit bull but does she own a pit bull and how many has she ever owned.
How many on here have ever really been attacked by a pit bull? Do you think those who have been attacked would call the attack experience with pit bulls?

SHE is right here and if you have a question, you can direct it to me.

I see you didn't bother to re-read my posts. You are much more comfortable recycling your assumptions than finding out otherwise.

And again I would just like to know, where in the hell was it posted that i must have X amount of experience to share my views??????

You are a waste of my time.

Now instead of reading anymore of your slander, I'm going to go outside and train my "lap dog" since that's all I have experience with. :rolleyes:

Also, for anyone who wants to know what PLUGGING is, I will give you the link. It is graphic. It does show death. But it proves that Pancho is blowing hot air, and I assure you the video is not made by PETA.
 

pancho

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SHE is right here and if you have a question, you can direct it to me.

I see you didn't bother to re-read my posts. You are much more comfortable recycling your assumptions than finding out otherwise.

And again I would just like to know, where in the hell was it posted that i must have X amount of experience to share my views??????

You are a waste of time.

Now instead of reading anymore of your slander, I'm going to go outside and train my "lap dog" since that's all I have experience with. :rolleyes:

Also, for anyone who wants to know what PLUGGING is, I will give you the link. It is graphic. It does show death. But it proves that Pancho is blowing hot air, and I assure you the video is not made by PETA.

Plugging is a PETA made up practice. It is a common word heard when they are trying to get people to give them money.

Can I ask a question? What experience do you have in dog fighting? How did you gain this experience in dog fighting? Are you just parroting what other have told you.

Just for you I will state some of my experience. I was raising pit bulls before it was a felony to fight dogs. I owned a grand champion fighting dog. He won 7 fights, never lost. He died of old age. In all of the matches I went to there was never a case of "plugging", there was never a case of releasing the looser to run free.

Lets see who is blowing hot air. Please relate your experiences in dog fighting. Any firsthand experience? Ever been to a real dog fight? Ever seen a real champion fighting dog?

I am sure you can post PETA sites but I am real interested in your dog fighting experience.
Or are you the one who is blowing hot air?
 
B

Bobsk8

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I'm reading all of this with great interest because I am heavily involved in local politics and I think my city is very close to a pit bull law since the last episode where a pit bull was walking on a leash with its owner and attacked a pedestrian. The owner could not get the dog off the guy and it took a couple of other people to help to do it. The elderly man who was attacked said the dog came sniffed him in a friendly way and then attacked him. He had some pretty bad injuries, regards himself as grateful to be alive, but is screaming for a law banning pit bulls. The owner, who was entirely shocked that it happened, had the dog put down. This was a dog that lived with his family, kids etc. and had never shown any aggression to humans at all. The owner was very choked up and I felt as sorry for him as I did for the victim. But his dog had to go, as you well know.

We've had some pretty awful maimings here and the patience seems to have ended. One young boy got attacked in his own yard by a neighbor's pit bull, and his face was destroyed. The owners ultimately hid the dog in another state after it was ordered euthanized, and took their fines. They weren't going to put the dog down even though it had literally destroyed this young boy's face. This didn't go very far toward improving public image. The incident happened two years ago and the public is still angry over what those owners did.

Where I live, it seems that just when it calms down, another one occurs. I know one guy who sprayed a loose pit bull and clubbed him on the head with a tieout stake and the dog hadn't even attacked. He said he wasn't going to wait and see. This is a pit bull that the owner says is "friendly" and accidently got out of the yard, which is possible--things like that can happen, but it doesn't seem to be excusable when it's a pitbull with the history around here. We have also an increasing number of complaints from homeowners trying to rent apartments and potential tenants refusing to move in or moving out because of the pit bull in the yard next door or nearby. The dogs don't even have to be doing anything, just the sight of them scares people off because it has reached a point where everybody knows somebody by name who has been attacked or terrified. Not too long ago, a pit bull was shot on sight by a police officer after complaints he was loose and scaring people.

I really don't think any laws that punish people after the injury or death is going to continue to be acceptable to the communities that are pushing toward bans. It's just not a safe enough idea to the public at large. I myself only know one pit bull personally and he's a nice dog but I cannot bring my dog over to my friend's house because he is extremely dog aggressive. So I just don't do it, but I would imagine that if he ever got loose by accident he would easily kill someone's dog or cat. I know that her neighbors are skittish about it. The only other experience I had was last summer when some nutball had two young pit bulls tied on chains behind where I live, rain or shine. They howled all night and snapped at each other and got meaner and meaner as the summer wore on. One got loose and bit a child and was taken away. Shortly after, the dog control people took the other one. I really felt sorry for these dogs and actually thought of helping them a few times, but too be honest, I was too afraid to go near them and even more fearful for my own puppy if they broke into my yard. Every time my dog went into the yard they would start barking violently and they couldn't even see onto my land; it was very scarey. I had the distinct feeling they wanted my puppy, if you get my drift. I had a very uncomfortable summer because of it and was hovering over my puppy ad nauseum whenever she was in my yard. Now I could have been way off base, you see? But the truth is, people are afraid of them because of the incidents they know of, and it makes them shiver at the thought that a pit bull might be in their vicinity. I see the kind of public reaction you might see if a convicted child molester move into the area. The hysteria is that great.

I do think these chained dogs I mentioned did not come to a happy ending, and I feel terrifically guilty about it because of my mixed feelings. On one hand I felt sorry for them and on the other hand I am just glad they are gone because they pose no danger to me or my dog. Talk about terrible mixed feelings, hey?

Talking about banning people in different categories is never going to be a good analogy because in all civilized countries, people will always have more rights than pets. This is a hard thing to face, especially since I personally love my dog more than I love most people I know. But it's a fact nonetheless. We can never attach the same rights to our pets as is attached to the public at large, and yes, that even includes the pedophile that you might be forced to live with in your town. The constitution simply does not apply to our dogs, and so it is incumbent upon us to pay the piper if one of our beloved pets violates the rules set forth by people.

My thoughts here give you a good indicator of how the general public who never owned a pit bull feels about pit bulls. Educating them to not look them in the eye, and to freeze and do all those other things that are suggested won't work. It only invokes MORE fear. People do not want to hear what THEY must do to cohabitat with pit bulls and that really has to be acknowledged. Most people that see a loose pit bull or even one on a leash coming towards them want him gone any way it can happen. It's just a survival instinct kicking in, you see. People at large don't stop to think about whose fault it is, how it's not the dog's fault, how the owner may or may not be responsible, whether they are trained or not trained. They simply want the object of their fear to no longer be there. We have to face that we are a society that puts people before dogs and adjust accordingly. If it comes down to public safety or somebody's pet, there is no question which will win out. Yelling at people about it and telling them they are ignorant or that we need to educate people while the problem still looms isn't really going to make the public as a whole feel warmer or more fuzzy about this problem. It only exacerbates it, attaching pit bull ownership in the same category as pit bulls. I'm sure that all of you are wonderful people who love your dogs as much as I love mine. But I honestly don't think that the woman who emotionally posted on this thread wants to meet anybody else's sweet lovable pit bull after she watched her own dog being ripped apart in front of her. Being sensitive to this would really go a long long way. I realize that you love your dogs, and your dog wasn't the pit bull who did this. But just try for a minute to put yourself in her place and can you really blame her? I could almost see her crying while she typed what happened.

I hope I have given you some light on what is really going on in the minds of the great majority of people around you, all of the ignorant of pit bull ownership as I am. That is my real intent here. I deliberately chose a breed that would not impact my ability to have property and liability insurance. I also chose a dog that is not very popular. Maybe these things were in the back of my mind at the time I was making my choices, but I do know that I am very grateful that my breed is not very high on the popularity list. I recognize that one day that could change and I dread the thought. So I do not want you to think I do not feel for those of you who own and love pit bulls. I just want to put a more realistic paint on the picture of what the public is thinking all around you.

Love,
Your Dead Messenger.
Great Post. Maybe some of the "shoot the messenger and the message types" will take a deep breath, and actually sit down, and read what you wrote, and learn something...... However, I don't hold up much hope for that to happen......
 

tempura tantrum

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You also notice she has met pit bull after pit bull but does she own a pit bull and how many has she ever owned
Dude- do you seriously EVER READ what ANYONE says to you? Or are you too busy puffing your chest out and feeling superior about your "experience?"

She stated that she has both fostered AND owned pitbulls. It's there in black and white. For anyone with functional retinas.

As for owning "grand champion fighting dogs." I don't why that's ever something to be proud of. Great that your dog died of old age- what about those that lost to it? I hope they were afforded the same "luxury." Gah- men and compensation...:rolleyes:

By the way- nice post Tosca. Interesting and informative.
 
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