i hate people "saving" dogs graphic warning

Pops2

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why can't anyone answer the fluffy question? we all know a dog & a cat are different animals that function differently so you're still not answering the question.
What makes it okay for fluffy the alledgedly harmless cat to wander off your property but not fluffy the alledgedly harmless little dog?
for wild canines their territory varies just like for cats, some are huge & some are small. the volume of prey within the territory isn't necessarily the determining factor on size, nor is the size of the canine. canines have as much genetic need to hunt & roam as cats. so really, what is the difference?
 

Dekka

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I think the reason no one can answer that question, Pops, is that they have no answer. While dogs and cats are not the same.. they are both domestic social carnivores so share many things in common. There is no difference so they can't some up with one other than saying dogs aren't cats.
 

Dizzy

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My post wasn't directed at you Dizzy..........I was just answering Dekka's question as to what I would do and why, LOL

I don't presume to tell you what is right for your pets just like I don't want anyone telling me what's right for mine. ;)

Oh, and for what it's worth.........we never dreamed our pets would be shot at either! Never heard of it happening around there before! LOL
No, mine wasn't directed at you, just thought it highlighted what I meant :)
 

Dizzy

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Well, if a coyote or bird of prey ate my cat it'd be a cold day in hell. And last I heard, hedgehogs don't eat cats.

I did answer the fluffy question. I do not view cats the same as dogs. Never have. Never will. They might both eat meat. I'd hardly say cats are social. They TOLERATE social situations. You might get 2 cats who live together just fabulous. But left to their own devices, they'd unlikely live so close.

Cats have totally different dietary needs. They have different social behaviours and communications.

Put a cat and a dog in an identical situation and you will get two different responses because they are not the same species.

I will repeat my answer.

I will not let fluffy roam because a) it is ILLEGAL (no, I do NOT live near you so I am not going to pretend I do). b) dogs do not react the same as cats. c) I don't believe in treating my dog like my cat, nor my cat like my dog.

Now.

Unless you're asking a NEW question, I don't think anyone is appreciating all this repetative questioning.

And no, it's not because I am not answering the Q - you just aren't satisfied with my answer. And no, it's not going to change. And I don't think I have to spell it out for you again :D

I have no worries about my cat being outdoors.

You do.

Big wow there :D
 
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Most cat diseases are spread through intercourse (Feline AIDS for example, Herpies,etc). If the cat is altered (Like all of mine are)...They are not spreading disease.

I could care less if people let their dogs wander. I just wouldn't let mine, because they would run off and leave me and get injured. I have said that quite a few time, and HAVE answered your question.
 

Dizzy

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As for disease - my DOG is the only one who has encountered anything!

She contracted kennel cough which could ONLY have been from a walk as we hadn't been anywhere else near dogs or indoors where dogs had been.

Cat with disease - zero!

It's a small risk I take when I walk my dog, and when I allow my cat the pleasure of being outside :)
 

Miakoda

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Most cat diseases are spread through intercourse (Feline AIDS for example, Herpies,etc). If the cat is altered (Like all of mine are)...They are not spreading disease.

I could care less if people let their dogs wander. I just wouldn't let mine, because they would run off and leave me and get injured. I have said that quite a few time, and HAVE answered your question.
Actually, FeLUK and FIV can be spread by nothing more than sharing a water bowl or cats grooming each other. They are HIGHLY contagious. And FIP is also highly contagious and does not require sexual transmission.

And again, it's not solely about what might happen to your pet if you let it roam, it's about OTHER PEOPLE and respecting their right to not have to deal with your nuisance pet. Just because the actions aren't considered "nuisance" by you, it is to someone else and that is the issue in this case.

I personally see that many just plain downright lack respect for other people. Basically it's just a big F-you.
 
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it's about OTHER PEOPLE and respecting their right to not have to deal with your nuisance pe
Its funny again how other people think that ALL cats are a nuisance.And the lack of reading something I have stated so many times in this thread lol. (Of course people only read what they want to). But I have a relationship with ALL my neighbors. They know my cats, they know me. They would TELL me if something happened with their property..and my cats.

That is NOT a lack of respect for my neighbors. I wouldn't WANT my cats damaging someone's property..as I have stated many, many times.
 

ACooper

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I know our neighborhood has many cats that roam constantly, and they are ALWAYS in my trash.......tearing it up and spreading it around for me to pick up.

It's not really "damage" but it's a pain in my butt every week. And no, lids on the trash don't keep them out of it........they manage to get it off anyway.

And in the summer.........all summer long, we get woke up by cats outside fighting at all hours. And no, it isn't just the cats who have not been altered, even the S/N cats will fight over their "territory"

I am glad that they don't go in our backyard and poop in our sandbox or the dogs sandpit.......I think the smell of the dogs keeps them out, at least that is a relief, LOL
 
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I hear cats fighting all the time at night. And i don't like it. Just because I have cats doesn't mean I LIKE damage to property, or hearing cats fight with each other at night. And it is the unaltered male ferals that do it outside in the alley, and I can hear them.

You know the most annoying sound? Hearing my next door neighbor's (Not the ones with 11 cats) cat howling ALL day long INSIDE their house. She/He hangs out in their laundry room and HOWLS and SCREAMS all night, all day..24/7 at the doors and windows.
 
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why can't anyone answer the fluffy question? we all know a dog & a cat are different animals that function differently so you're still not answering the question.
What makes it okay for fluffy the alledgedly harmless cat to wander off your property but not fluffy the alledgedly harmless little dog?
for wild canines their territory varies just like for cats, some are huge & some are small. the volume of prey within the territory isn't necessarily the determining factor on size, nor is the size of the canine. canines have as much genetic need to hunt & roam as cats. so really, what is the difference?
The day my beagle can hop right over my 6 foot block wall, and lay on my block wall, and not run around like a chicken with his head cutt off outside, then he, too, can roam around.

Also- Its more accepted for cats to be outside. You see a dog outside, you dont think.. "what a cute indoor/outdoor dog" you think, aww a stray! People dont automatically assume all outside cats are strays.

They are two different animals. Apples and oranges.
 
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ETA- I will NEVER have another outdoor cat again. Had Mittens not been shot, than yes I probably would.. but out of my PERSONAL experience, I dont want to go through that again.

I got REEMED on another board. They told me my cat was up in heaven HATING ME because I let him outside and I obviously didnt love him because I got him killed. They called me irresponsible, they called me words I cannot post here and mods had to delete their posts. It was HORRIBLE. I believed them.

Then I thought about it. WHY was I such a terrible person for doing something that made my cat happy? My cat was MISERABLE sitting at the window looking outside. And you can say "put him on a leash" all you want but my cat liked to lay in my front lawn, he didnt like to walk up and down the block. I do not regret letting my cat outside. And furthermore I do not look down on owners who chose to let their cat outdoors. My mom lets her two cats, one of them being my childhood cat, outside. To each his own. We all know the risks.

If your neighbors cat is annoying you, take it up with them. Just know that not ALL outdoor cats are nusiences.
 

Pops2

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there are plenty of dogs that can hop a 6 ft wall/fence (many sighthounds can do it on the run w/o breaking stride & i've seen a beagle escape between the door & roof of an enclosed kennel after climbing the wooden door), you've simply created a difference that doesn't necessarily exist. ETA many dogs are quite calm & pleasant when out & about.
again there is nothing about a cat that doesn't apply to some dogs. dogs & cats both have essentially the same diet OTHER ANIMALS. both cause the same problems, disturbance, property damage & filth.
as for acceptance, we've clearly shown that legality is a local issue and social acceptance is really only among cat people (& not even all of them).
horses, goats, pigs & monkeys are all different from dogs w/different dietary needs and yet almost no one would assert that these animals should be allowed to roam when kept as pets even if legal.
so again why are cats allowed the special status? no one has answered, no one has truly explained why. the only thing anyone has done is put forward false differences and when shown the differences are BS they simply assert they are different.
 

Doberluv

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I'd hardly say cats are social.
I don't think they're social in the wild state. They're considered solitary animals. But now that we've brought them into our homes, they're quite sociable with us. My cats were. And mine were sociable with each other...the ones in our family. Even their meow is thought to have developed only on account of living with humans.

Dogs are social also, but many people, myself included don't believe them to be true pack animals in most situations. The terms "social" and "pack" are not the same thing. An animal can be social but not operate in a fully functioning pack.

Cats are serious hunters..obligate carnivores. They hunt more than they scavange. Dogs scavange more than they hunt and although carnivores (by their systems), behaviorally they are omnivores. That too, is controversial, but that is my take on it.

How they are different in those ways however, is pretty irrelevant to this debate as to whether they should be kept safe from roaming. In that way dogs and cats are the same. They are both potentially at risk and they both can potentially cause a lot of trouble.

How they are different is that it's easier to train a dog to stay in the yard (albeit very generally speaking) and harder to train a cat to stay in the yard. And that's due to their being different in that way....the way they are connected to humans going way back and their very natures. I just think if a cat can be positively kept in his own yard and positively doesn't kill birds and positively doesn't get eaten by some predator, or hurt by another human, then fine. But I don't believe that is ever a sure fire thing. Of course, on the other hand, I go hiking in the woods with my dogs and it's not a sure fire, positive thing that some bear or moose isn't going to sneak up on us and get us all. I understand the idea of benefits and quality of life being weighed against the risks. But there again, I see more of a need for dogs to get out and run in a relatively safe situation than I do for cats needing to be outside. And that's because I've seen cats have a rip roaring good time climbing and playing on those big, elaborate platform things with carpet all over and those swinging, dangling toys that hang off to swat at. They make all kinds of nifty toys and faux "prey" things for cats to enjoy. Then it's next to their human on the couch or lounging in front of a fire. All this is enough for cats IMO. (my opinion now. I didn't always think this way)

Dogs, on the other hand need more exercise than that generally, more training which requires seeing more novel things, more variety of environments, more humans and other dogs....basically, more socializing to become adapted to our human culture and environment and to become what they have been designed by evolution to become to humans....our relationship with them, the many jobs they do etc. They need that to be safe and pleasant members in our society.

Cats need soialization too, but since they don't have those same needs which come from going so many places with US, herding sheep, being guides for disabled people, retrieving for hunters, protection and all the multitude of jobs out there, that socialization can be more limited...IN THE HOME and maybe with the addition of the vet's office or a couple of other places you might need to take your cat. In fact, if a kitten is kept from going outside, he does not habituate to the outside and therefore rarely even wants to go outside. Some may be more curious than others. But the way it works in all animals is that during that critical early socialization period, what they don't experience, later...they won't want to experience. In other words, they've gotten along fine without it so far. There's curiosity and there's caution. After that critical socialization window closes, caution is the default setting. If it weren't true, wild animals would not be afraid of anything. A false positive with something they're initially curious about can wind up killing them. Then they can't pass on their curious genes because they're dead. So, keeping a kitten inside in the first place, never letting him venture out at all, normally keeps them happy and safe indoors.
 

ACooper

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The day my beagle can hop right over my 6 foot block wall, and lay on my block wall, and not run around like a chicken with his head cutt off outside, then he, too, can roam around.

Also- Its more accepted for cats to be outside. You see a dog outside, you dont think.. "what a cute indoor/outdoor dog" you think, aww a stray! People dont automatically assume all outside cats are strays.

They are two different animals. Apples and oranges.
That reminded me of this! LOL

Not only did he climb at least 6ft, the kennel had a ROOF and door, LOL
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5sJjE5qelXQ

And here are a ton of vids of beagles climbing/escaping ;)

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_type=&search_query=escaping+beagle&aq=f
 
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Carrie, I apologize for not reading your post right now. I WILL read it eventually but right now I am so exhausted I can't read words lol

But in response to other people's posts:

If your neighbors cat is annoying you, take it up with them. Just know that not ALL outdoor cats are nusiences.
I agree completely.
 

Dekka

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I hate to break it to some of you. Domestic ats ARE social creatures. Not pack animals but social. Tonnes of studies to back this up. Heck it was even on Daily Planet a while back lol.

Some species of cats are solitary and some are even 'pack' animals. Domestic cats are social but less gregarious than dogs.
 

Dekka

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Actually according to some research (in the field) shows that feral domestic cats DO form groups.

http://books.google.ca/books?id=kO5...=X&oi=book_result&resnum=2&ct=result#PPA98,M1

Oh and for those who say take it up with your neighbours. Umm do you not read this thread. Most of us who have posted issues don't know who the cat belongs too. So we are supposed to track down the owner.. how about the the owner should be responsible and not let their cat wander unattended. How is it my job to keep track of the cats who cross my property.

I never found out who that lovely doomed young cat belonged too.
 
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Actually according to some research (in the field) shows that feral domestic cats DO form groups.

http://books.google.ca/books?id=kO5...=X&oi=book_result&resnum=2&ct=result#PPA98,M1

Oh and for those who say take it up with your neighbours. Umm do you not read this thread. Most of us who have posted issues don't know who the cat belongs too. So we are supposed to track down the owner.. how about the the owner should be responsible and not let their cat wander unattended. How is it my job to keep track of the cats who cross my property.I never found out who that lovely doomed young cat belonged too.
God, no kidding. As if I don't have things to do other than track down the owners of the cats who are p*ssing me off.

Here's a concept...be responsible. Then I won't have to track down the owner of this cat or that cat to tell them

a) Please keep your cat from $hitting in my yard
b) Please pay the bill for the damage your cat did to my vehicle
c) Please come get your cat's remains because my dog killed him
d) Please come get your cat's remains because he was hit and killed and *I* had the decency to get him out of the road because I figured SOMEONE out to give a dam* about him.
e) etc etc etc


As for cats not being social. Yes, they are. Feral cats, as Dekka mentioned, live in colonies. They're not forced to live this way, they do it instinctually. Cats are more like lions in that they form "prides" of females, a lone adult male, and sometimes juvenile males that have not yet reached sexual maturity.
 
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