Ceaser Milan

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#61
I don't have problem dogs like those on CM's show. But if I did, I would either contact a professional or be accountable and responsible for the outcome. Whatever I did, he would not be responsible.
I'm sorry, I've only seen a few episodes (no cable at home) and it's been a while, but doesn't the disclaimer that you mentioned say something like, "Contact a professional before trying any of the shown techniques"?
 
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harrischrysler

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#62
Hey I have a poll for the trainers on this board. How many people and dogs have you had to retrain with issues because these people read and used CM's methods without success?
Tell ya' what. I will call you when it happens. (18 months and counting...)

And my comment added to the discussion just as much as demonizing does. When local trainers have cahorted and all conclusively decided this dog can't be trained, CM and Koehler stepped up to the plate without clickers and bribes to actually TRAIN THE DOG. One-sidedness has destroyed another forum for me. Still waiting on a real response without name dropping.
 

Dekka

Just try me..
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#63
Well no one would argue bribing is bad. But don't discount fellow chazzers. I have rehabbed dogs for the JRTRO. So far I have rehabbed 5 dogs that were due to be destroyed due to HA and DA issues. One I could not help, turned out he had a medical condition. Others on this board are very skilled at what they do. Some extreemly gifted trainers have left this forum because they got sick of arguing with people who wanted to to harm/hurt their dogs in the name of training.

I am by no means as talented as some of the others on this forum, but I am proud of the ribbons, titles and dogs I have helped. What have you done other than 18 months with your own dog that gived YOU such insight?
 
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harrischrysler

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#64
So, you accuse me of discounting others when you've clearly discounted myself? Go spank your children and I will now leave you all alone. Pascifists...
 

Dekka

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#65
lol pascifists... nope I switched cause I am competitive. I want to win, and do well, at first it had nothing to do with being 'nicer' or 'kinder' Then when I read all about the theory of OC etc (learned about it in university) I delved into it more.

Why does my son need a spank..I am pretty sure he is happily sleeping.
 

adojrts

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#66
Pascifists??? what is that? hell I even grab the dict. and could find it there...
anyone?

And I don't believe that Dekka was discounting herself either lol.
I think things should come to a close, this have gone from the sublime to the ridiculous in a heartbeat.
 
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harrischrysler

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#67
One last blast before I erase my account... I bet a Ward Churchill type was your professor... Appeasement monkeys.
 

Lilavati

Arbitrary and Capricious
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#68
So, you accuse me of discounting others when you've clearly discounted myself? Go spank your children and I will now leave you all alone. Pascifists...
One last blast before I erase my account... I bet a Ward Churchill type was your professor... Appeasement monkeys
<notes the elephant avatar>

This is great! Political paraody performance art on a dog training forum! This is simply sublimely ridiculous! I love it!

Could someone switch their avatar to a donkey and call him a "warmongering thug"? I mean, dog training techniques as a proxy for political affiliation . . . the possibilities for satire are endless!

So . . . what training methods does Rudi Gullani use? Or Hilary Clinton?

:popcorn::popcorn::popcorn::popcorn:

Excuse me, time to make more popcorn . . . .
 

adojrts

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#69
<notes the elephant avatar>

This is great! Political paraody performance art on a dog training forum! This is simply sublimely ridiculous! I love it!

Could someone switch their avatar to a donkey and call him a "warmongering thug"? I mean, dog training techniques as a proxy for political affiliation . . . the possibilities for satire are endless!

So . . . what training methods does Rudi Gullani use? Or Hilary Clinton?

:popcorn::popcorn::popcorn::popcorn:

Excuse me, time to make more popcorn . . . .
Mine just finished popping
 
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#71
You are confusing

first you are defending Milan, but then you say you use positive reinforcement and operant conditioning which he doesn't use.

You say wolf pack theory is incorrect not dog pack and that Milan in not a trainer so what is he???

I think you are defending Milan just to defend him because it sounds like you do not really use his methods.
 
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#72
first you are defending Milan, but then you say you use positive reinforcement and operant conditioning which he doesn't use.
I use Operant Conditioning (all 4 quadrants) to train my dogs to sit, down, stay, etc. I use Millan's (and others') philosophy to develop and maintain a well-balanced, stable pack of dogs within my home. They are not mutually exclusive.

You say wolf pack theory is incorrect not dog pack and that Milan in not a trainer so what is he???
He's a Dog Whisperer. ;) Seriously, I would call him a behaviorist or a psychologist, without the piece of paper. Or a rehabilitator or a therapist for dogs. I would not call him a dog trainer by any stretch of the imagination. He rehabilitates dogs. He trains people. He is... the Dog Whisperer. LOL

I think you are defending Milan just to defend him because it sounds like you do not really use his methods.
I guess that depends on what methods you mean. As I said, I don't have problem dogs, so I have never had a need for many of the "harsher" methods we see on his show. But I think he's doing the right thing and I support most of what he does. I think he's fantastic with dogs and reads them right 90% of the time. I use his philosophy. In other words, I believe a group (or pack) of dogs needs a strong leader and it's important to maintain leadership. I believe in the tenets of exercise, discipline (in the form of rules, boundaries and limitations) and affection. I believe that if there a problem with the dog, it's most likely because they don't have strong leadership.

Does that clarify it for you some? I have better things to do than to defend someone just to defend them. But this is a very interesting discussion.
 

houndlove

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#73
I would like to note that the original question was "If you don't like Cesar Millan, why not?", not "What does everyone think of him?"
 

lostcoyote

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#75
I love it when people say he saves dogs. Maybe, but he ruins many....Don't get me started...
then let me help you get started.... provide reference material directly from his clients which state that he has ruined their dogs..

if you can not do this, then stop making presumptions based solely on your exagerated & emotional projections.
 

lostcoyote

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#77
It seems that no matter what your position is as a trainer, you should know every style of training to be an effective trainer. By knowing a heavily sided +R method, as well as the opposite, you can more efficiently communicate to owner's what it is they should be doing. Not everyone is going to be successful with one method. Every owner is different, and every dog is different. So, knowing a variety of methods is the only way to be more responsive to a varying degree of owners. (I didn't sell cars for nine years by only inducing positive thoughts and responses.) There seems to be an underlying movement that has it's motives set on proving the past wrong, be it dog trainers or general history.
sounds like common sense to me. use as many tools at your disposal which work to make your "pack" one cohesive and happy unit.
 

elegy

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#78
In other words, I believe a group (or pack) of dogs needs a strong leader and it's important to maintain leadership. I believe in the tenets of exercise, discipline (in the form of rules, boundaries and limitations) and affection. I believe that if there a problem with the dog, it's most likely because they don't have strong leadership.
but nothing in that at all is unique to cesar.
 

DanL

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#80
You know what's great about CM threads? You can read the 1st page, skip to the middle page, and then to the end page, and it's all the same. The same people who don't like him blast him, the same people who like him support him.

I don't care about him either way. I enjoy watching his show because it's about dogs and there are some interesting situations on it. But, I'd also be interested in seeing where he's ruined dogs. We all know about the one he put on the treadmill who got hurt, but what else is there? If nothing else, he brings awareness to the families who come to him. I think we can all agree that 99% of the problems with the dogs on his show are because of the owners, and just making them think about what they are doing is going to improve their relationship with their pet.

I know this topic is great forum fodder, but it never ever gets anywhere. People have as many differences of opinion on dog training, just like they do on politics and religion. There is no set way, you do what works for you.
 
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