Bad Dog Trainer Beware !!

zanadu

New Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2007
Messages
23
Likes
0
Points
0
zoom,
our training tools (staves or collars) are phased out once training is advanced. as a matter of fact most of our dogs need no equipment at all. i think a lot of our methods have been misunderstood and taken out of context. i am a lover of animals and would never be apart of something where i thought animals were being treated inhumanely.
 

Kodaz

New Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2007
Messages
40
Likes
0
Points
0
I have been reading all of this stuff here and Mr. Richling sent me his book free of charge. I have finished his book, and I must admit that his system makes total sense to me. I have never posted anything here or even registered before; as it seemed like a waste of time. But I must admit, that you all do not like Mr. Richling very much but you cannot argue that his methods are not working, can you?
 

Zoom

Twin 2.0
Joined
Jul 11, 2005
Messages
40,739
Likes
3
Points
36
Age
36
Location
Denver, CO
zoom,
our training tools (staves or collars) are phased out once training is advanced. as a matter of fact most of our dogs need no equipment at all. i think a lot of our methods have been misunderstood and taken out of context. i am a lover of animals and would never be apart of something where i thought animals were being treated inhumanely.
Perhaps this is true, but the fact that staves are a part of the training at all really gets to me and many others on this forum. The fact that you are punishing your dogs for "misbehaving" before checking to make sure that you have completely ingrained the behavior. Does a dog need distractions to become solid? You betcha. Does a dog need to work under more distraction than it's ready for? No...and this is usually where breaks or disobedience happen and what makes people think that forceful corrections are needed.

I think a lot of our methods are also misunderstood as well as ridiculed, with anecdotal evidence to back them up for both sides of the arguement.
 

zanadu

New Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2007
Messages
23
Likes
0
Points
0
not all dogs have a stave used on them and certainly not a begining dog. also, our dogs are all placed with elements of distractions ACCORDING TO THE LEVEL OF THE DOG. see, the very basis of our training is not understood. heck, i'd be mad too if i thought that was the case.
 

Jammies

New Member
Joined
Aug 15, 2007
Messages
27
Likes
0
Points
0
Location
Louisville KY
I totally agree Dutchie. Dogs are not stupid and are very much capable of distinguishing what is expected of them in an obedience situation as opposed to that of an individual who is threatening his master. The dog is not at all focused on what the "bad guy" has in his hand as a weapon. It is the threat from the individual that he is protecting himself/his master from no matter the weapon. For that matter, if he has been treated fairly and justly he will never fear a stick, or anything else that may be in someone's hand.
 

MelissaCato

ĜȫƝ ₩īĿÐ
Joined
Jan 26, 2006
Messages
1,461
Likes
0
Points
0
Location
Under a Rock in the USA!
Is there video of this trainer hitting these dogs like on youtube?
I searched up and down the net... everything I see was positive.

I too think it was misunderstood and taken out of context. I see this happening conciderin' what I read by the poster and what I've read from Mr. Richling.

I think the word "beat" isn't fitting this bill either, decoys would be mighty hot if they were told they "beat" the dog instead of agitate if someone new watched for 1/2 hour then posted the such to stir up public discussion. :yikes: JMO.
 

zanadu

New Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2007
Messages
23
Likes
0
Points
0
thank you melissa cato. it was getting frustrating thinking that everyone had already made up their minds and closed their ears on our method. i'm not asking anyone to agree with what i do but i want to make it clear that no animal is being beaten.
 

Jammies

New Member
Joined
Aug 15, 2007
Messages
27
Likes
0
Points
0
Location
Louisville KY
You are absolutely correct that control is extremely important in protection training (you don't want to build a race car without brakes) and I have never seen a stick employed on the protection field for obedience.

There truly seems to be way too much focus on this piece of delron than need be. I actually carry a stick with me in order to protect my dog from loose, aggressive dogs when we are out on walks, etc. Most of the dogs in the training group get very little more than a pop on a collar or a stern verbal reprimand. As we all know, some dogs are extremely tough and they may need a stronger correction but this too abates very quickly if the correction is sufficient for that dog. I certainly wouldn't use the same correction on my Border Collie you would use on most Malinois or Rottweilers. Each dog is an individual and should be respected as such. I have a Jack Russell that is as tough as they come and has at times needed a firmer correction than the Border Collie. That is the challenge of dog training....realizing what each individual dog needs to bring out the best in him...be it firm or soft.
 

zanadu

New Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2007
Messages
23
Likes
0
Points
0
i also have a malinois who is very sensitive to corrections so she just gets vocal corrections and rarely anything physical. there is an art to knowing when to do what and that is what martin is such a master at teaching. its not the dogs that need most of the training it is the handlers.
 

mrose_s

BusterLove
Joined
Mar 27, 2005
Messages
12,169
Likes
0
Points
36
Age
29
Location
QLD, Australia
zoom,
our training tools (staves or collars) are phased out once training is advanced. as a matter of fact most of our dogs need no equipment at all..
But the point is that staves and collars ARE used, particularily when the dog s inexperienced and still learning, this shoudl be the time that a trainer embraces the good behaviour to insure it follows.

Physical Corrections only show the dog what they are doing that is wrong.
Positive Reinforcement teaches the dog that being naughty isn't worth it, because it focus's on good behaviour, the dog feels more inclined to repeat what we deem appropriate as they are being rewarded for it. whereas physical corrections only point out the bad aspects of training to a dog, which will decrease its willingness to take part in training.
 

zanadu

New Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2007
Messages
23
Likes
0
Points
0
sigh..... okay let me try explaining this again because this is a very important aspect of our training. when a dog is in begining classes we do not use a stave (some dogs never see one). we DO pet and praise when our dog does complete a command as given every time. also, dogs need to know if they did something wrong- it shouldnt be ignored. someone has totally misinformed you guys on what we do. where is swilson anyway????
 

mrose_s

BusterLove
Joined
Mar 27, 2005
Messages
12,169
Likes
0
Points
36
Age
29
Location
QLD, Australia
I also think that if a dog gets punished for something, they just see the punishment as tellning them not to get CAUGHT doing it. PR teaches the dog that there is no point in partaking in bad behaviour (begging, digging, chewing etc) because there is much more reward in not doing it.

Punishment means you'll just have a dog that doesn't want to get caught, but given the chance, will still do whatever it is thats bad behaviour.
 

MelissaCato

ĜȫƝ ₩īĿÐ
Joined
Jan 26, 2006
Messages
1,461
Likes
0
Points
0
Location
Under a Rock in the USA!
... anyone know any Körung savy trainers in the USA by chance? I know there was alot of controversy oversea's not to long ago and certain parts banned it.. I was thinking maybe the event wondered over here?
 

DoggieDog

New Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2007
Messages
7
Likes
0
Points
0
Hello Everyone: New to the forum.

I will say that the Louisville dog community is a buzz about the conversations that have been going on about Mr. Richling.

I have been an active member with animal organizations in Louisville for over 20 years. Mr. Richling is considered a controversial figure in the animal community in Louisville, and has been ever since he started training in Louisville.

Mr. Richling has the reputation of being a brash, arrogant, abrasive, know it all, who is a complete lunatic. Reading thru these forums, I see that his reputation procedes him.

I will say for every positive comment you find about Mr. Richling you will find at least 10 people that have something negative to say. Does his training methods work? Maybe & Maybe not !! I guess it depends upon your definition of working. I do know that alot of people have quit his classes because they can't handle him as a person.

I think if you have to use a stave under any circumstances no matter how soft or hard you use it on an dog and call it training, then yes you are going to have a lot of people raise a lot of questions. This is extremely old school

I see that Mr. Richling keeps asking his methods might be controversial but do they work? If you have to hit a dog with a stave or give a dog a hard correction with a prong collar in order to get to the promise land of having your dog trained then it excessively too much.

I ask this question, if the high road & low road both lead to the same destination which one would you take?
 
Top