Bad Dog Trainer Beware !!

showdawgz

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Exactly. That is what causes dogs to "bite out of the blue." Their warning signals were suppressed in the past. Dogs don't just suddenly turn aggressive fo no reason. People who are unskilled or uneducated in canine body language, communication signals, calming signals, in other words, people who believe that dogs share our value system and should understand that something is "unacceptable" train in this harsh, stern way with lots of force and corrections. We may think something is unacceptable and it is in our society. But to just "tell" a dog that this is unacceptable by a leash yank or whatever does not change his thinking about that. He does not have the conitive ability to logically reason all that out. "Oh, they don't like that thing we dogs do with our teeth to settle differences. Oh yes, that's right, they have lawyers and police." OK....this what I just did was unacceptable in their society and by their morals." No....dogs don't think like that. So, to say, that something is unacceptable doesn't get humans anywhere with dogs. Teach the dog in terms he can relate to. Dogs do things that work for them. They're opportunistic, they're selfish, they're out for themselves. They aren't out to please you. Only indirectly because by pleasing humans got them left overs and all kinds of neat stuff when they were evolving. It's about survival. They do things so they can survive, reproduce and pass on their genes. They like humans because it works to like humans. If you want your dog to do something, make it work for him too....make there be a payoff so he'll want to work for you. This is so much easier than having a power struggle and forcing a dog to work for you.

Gosh, I just wish people would try.

I dont know if this post was towards me or not. But if it was, I dont know where you or anyone else is getting the idea that I abuse my dogs and force them to do things. Mace, my oldest is so hard an stubborn, there is NO WAY I could force him to do something. And I hate struggling with my dog. If he/she is having some sort of issue I just remove them from the situation, or train at a later time. I really wish people would stop saying that I abuse and know nothing about canine behavior and training.
 
T

tessa_s212

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Blue, I dunno what's in your pipe... but you are out there! You totally BS'ed again what eva you see fit. GodSpeed!!
Ick. I hardly like such a personthat is so rude and terrible to even say things such as "Godspeed". Perhaps you should go and actually read your Bible if you believe in Him. Might I suggest the parts about kindness and love?
 

showdawgz

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Get the dog away from the child or the child away from the dog. Get inbetween if you have to, yank the dog back with his tail if you have to....you have to do what you have to do to stop an attack. Hell, if a dog was in the act of killing someone and there was no way to pull him off and I could get a clear shot, I'd shoot him. When it's happening as in right now, you interrupt him. You stop it. You do not worry about training right then. You go then and make a stategy, a plan, something based on canine behavor and learning that will work. It's not always a head on, obvious fix. It's usually a round the back door kind of thing, steps which lead to something and some more steps which build a solid fix where the underlying issue can be totally dealt with. If it can not, then management must be the way....keeping the dog away from children or euthanizing. But hitting, striking, scolding in the presence of children as a cure......BIG, HUGE MISTAKE!

Now I see where you are coming from. I was under the impression that you all would just sit back and allow this to happen. Or ask your dogs to stop (yes, I have seen this where a dog is attacking another dog and the owners are standing there asking it to stop). Well, all I can say is this is the internet, no one can be sure of one's intentions and training techniques without seeing it for your own eyes.
 
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This is what everyone is missing in this thread. Your average housepet does not need to be trained with these methods. THAT is what everyone is getting so riled up about. Dogs with an tendency towards being constantly over-amped, which is a trait well-suited to military/police dogs, *might* do just fine when being constantly manhandled like this, whatever. But the majority of dogs, on both this board and in real life, are not suited to this type of punishment and do respond negatively.
Zoom, you've been around Kharma. I don't know if you were out in the yard with us the night the gunshots went off, but if you were, you'll remember I talked softly to her. With a dog that gets cranked up to go like that, I've found the only way to control her is by being calm and speaking softly. If I need to get her attention, touching her usually does the trick, although when she's cranked and has her objective in sight, sometimes I have to stand in front of her and make eye contact. But even then, softly, softly. Something I never could get The Idiot to understand is that all the yelling and whacking only got her more cranked up. :rolleyes:
 

Jammies

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SWilson...I have no idea who you are or why you are on this vendetta but you are probably the most .misinformed individual regarding this training I have heard in a long time. First, the paragraph you so inappropriately attribute to Martin was a quote from Colonel Konrad Most's book "Trainig Dogs, A Manual" You have also failed to make it known that training takes place in an extremely public forum with many spectators. If, as you say, dogs are being beaten, choked, etc. don't you think the public outcry would be explosive. Actually, just the opposite is true and people very much enjoy watching a large group of dogs doing what is asked of them. That goes to show what a rarity it is. Do you have any idea how many of the dogs you were watching in that class were failed by "positive reinforcement" methods and were headed for euthanasia or shelters? I have a dog that was miserably failed by these methods and that is how I found Martin at Petsmart. She was termed a "rogue" by another trainer in Louisville but with this training she is still in my household and a very much loved and obedient pet.

I trained with Richling K-9 for over four years. My Border Collie has been trained in this method since he was 11 weeks old. He is three now and has never been, nor ever will be, injured or abused in any way by any methods we employ. He is probably one of the happiest individuals you could ever meet. He actually gets excited when he goes to training and is a Certified Obedience Dog with this group. Any need for correction at this point is rare and if needed at all is no more than a stern "no."

Is Martin an easy man, no, he is a total perfectionist and expects his students to be committed and disciplined. What is wrong with expecting an adult to show up on time for a class? It is rude to show up late and interrupt a class in progress without a valid reason, which there rarely is. Being held accountable for your actions is not abuse, whether you be two-legged or four-legged. Be willing to learn and he will bend over backwards to help.....lack discipline and committment and you will quickly fail.

These principles used to be considered the norm now if someone/something is held accountable for their actions it is cruel. A sad commentary on where we are headed.
 

Jammies

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SWilson...I have no idea who you are or why you are on this vendetta but you are probably the most .misinformed individual regarding this training I have heard in a long time. First, the paragraph you so inappropriately attribute to Martin was a quote from Colonel Konrad Most's book "Trainig Dogs, A Manual" You really need to keep your facts straight if you are going to try and make a credible point. Also, even if the felony conviction were true, what the heck does that have to do with dog training? You aren't marrying the guy....he is just training your dog. By the way....kids and dogs love him....go figure!
 

Jammies

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Misinformation

SWilson...I have no idea who you are or why you are on this vendetta but you are probably the most .misinformed individual regarding this training I have heard in a long time. First, the paragraph you so inappropriately attribute to Martin was a quote from Colonel Konrad Most's book "Trainig Dogs, A Manual" You really need to keep your facts straight if you are going to try and make a credible point. Also, even if the felony conviction were true, what the heck does that have to do with dog training? You aren't marrying the guy....he is just training your dog. By the way....kids and dogs love him....go figure!
 

Dutchie

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This is a forum, so wouldn't other viewpoints be welcome? The theme of the attack against Richling was that he doesn't consider the alternatives or value input given by trainers that use PR, but on the other hand, it's okay to slam anyone who agrees with him? Who cares if his thread was locked, it's done. Jammies is trying to get her 2 cents in as well, but since she's a Martin follower she automatically gets labeled that way and blown off? Wow ...
 

Zoom

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Martin has presented himself as a disturbed induvidual, who has posted comments on this site that could very easily be used to raise questions as to how safe children are in his presence. Dog training aside, those comments alone prompt me to disregard anything remotely positive there might be about him, very little of which has made to Chazhound.
 

Red_ACD_for_me

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This is a forum, so wouldn't other viewpoints be welcome? The theme of the attack against Richling was that he doesn't consider the alternatives or value input given by trainers that use PR, but on the other hand, it's okay to slam anyone who agrees with him? Who cares if his thread was locked, it's done. Jammies is trying to get her 2 cents in as well, but since she's a Martin follower she automatically gets labeled that way and blown off? Wow ...
Blown off...............NO! Funny how you both joined as Martin followers and don't expect to be labeled as such. Though I suppose if you put some of your two cents into other threads on the forum instead of his maybe you would be labeled differently.................
 

Dutchie

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Maybe I should've clarified my statement ... it's not the fact in itself that anyone is labeled as one of his followers, just that the advocates for PR get irritated over the fact that Richling doesn't want to hear about PR, yet they don't always extend the same courtesy to advocates for his method either. In the end, both schools of thought think they're right and become downright nasty at times, and that's evident in the threads posted about this subject.
 

Whisper

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There's a difference between defending something about yourself, etc. and being a complete ass.
 
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