New puppy

I got a new puppy, and she really seems to be fitting in. Beside the food aggression...

I am curious, what should I do about aggression? She overall thinks shes Alpha, and I am having trouble fixing that...

I would love anyone and everyone's opinion. I have wanted a BC for SOOO long, and finally I get one...and she has issues lol.

Diane

Never met a BC who DOESN'T have issues!

You're going to have to give us more info about the aggression. What does she do? When? Who's around? Has she ever bitten? Drawn blood? Required doctor/vet visit because of a bite she inflicted? How long have you had her? Is she spayed? How old is she? Who else lives in the household (humans and animals)?

I am just looking now, for a way to get her to stop play biting. She has food aggression, but I am hand feeding her.

She is 8 weeks in a few days. I got her yesterday, she has bit me three times and drew blood. All of which had to do with touching her food. They werent that deep, more like scratches that bled a little. There are 5 people in my house including me, we have a 4 year old dog, and 20 rabbits. She has not yet seen the rabbits, I am waiting till she is a little older, and respects me FOR SURE as her leader.

I have never had a puppy with food aggression before, so I was originally asking for that. But a few people told me to hand feed. Other then that, I am just trying to find a method that WORKS when it comes to play biting. The methods I used with my first dog, arent working for her. Its only been a day, I know, however, I would like to know what I can do.

I have met plenty of BCs without issues, I just think I got the alpha puppy.

Diane

Being alpha doesn't have anything to do with real food aggression. In fact, usually it's the insecure dogs who have food aggression.

Given her age, I would say that the food aggression is probably easily fixed (since she hasn't had a lot of time to practice the behavior). But, it is a very urgent problem, since you have so many people in the household, and since she has bitten three times in less than 24 hours. So, the best advice I can give you right now is to find a trainer IMMEDIATELY who can help you learn how to handle the biting around the food bowl. That's the quickest, best solution for you at this point. You can check out www.apdt.com for a good trainer search.

In the mean time, make SURE that when your dog has a food bowl, no one goes near her. The more times she shows aggression at the food bowl, the more she will be practicing that aggression and the worse it will become. NEVER punish her for showing food aggression (including taking the food away), that will only make the aggression worse.

Can I just say - a border collie with 20 rabbits???? As soon as she sees them, she's going to try to heard them every single chance she gets, probably very obsessively. I have a friend who had a BC and a cat (a stray she was trying to find a home for anyway), and the BC would literally tear up the furniture trying to get to the cat (it wasn't at all aggression, it was just play). The dog was so destructive, my friend had to eventually keep the cat locked in a bedroom, but then EVERY time the dog was loose in the house, she was at that bedroom door looking for the cat. It was extremely obsessive.

Good luck!

I was thinking the same thing lol. Umm Im not trying to be mean but did you do your research since like mentioned above they have a high prey drive, and are meant for hearding its very instinctive for them. are first dog was a lab/aussie mix boy did she love to chase cows. I hope you know what your getting yourself into.

You two must REALLY not know the breed then. She is from WORKING lines, she was not bred to be obsessive. Only poorly bred BCs are OCD about working stock. Problems like you described are from poorly trained BCs. I have done a lot of research on the breed, and I have friends who have them. I am sorry, but I dont think you guys really know the breed. She wont be OCD with the rabbits because she will be trained that they are OFF LIMITS. Its not hard to do. I have a sight hound mix, who wanted to eat my rabbits at first, I completely trust her alone with them now. I dont think I made a poor decision on a breed choice. BCs get that OCD label because of poor breeding. Most working breeders and BC owners dont even consider the extremely OCD neurotic BCs to even be a border collie. I have introduced her to one of my older rabbits who is phased by dogs, and the only thing she wanted to do, was play. She hasnt shown herding drive at all. It really upsets me putting labels on a breed like that, it would be like telling me after I adopted a pitt that it was going to attack someone (thats just my opinion). Border Collies are wonderful dogs, and they only get uncontrollable when they are poorly bred, or with someone who doesnt understand their key needs. As for my rabbits, they are fine, unharmed, nor will they ever be harmed. Sorry for any rudeness, it just upsets me when people go off about how the breed has so many issues. Unless you know the breed very well, I dont think you can make that kind of statement.

As for her food aggression, thanks for the advice, I have been hand feeding her, and she will let me touch her face and everything. I really think it was just the first day, and how she dealt with it all, and I think I just overreacted.

Thank you,

Diane

I really hope you didn't just jinx yourself. Let us know how that goes so that us who know "poorly bred" BCs will be able to stop that behavior.

Wow, it's a good thing you're not going to be working her, then!

I was curious, so I looked up what the AKC has to say about BC temperment. Here's what I found (I added the highlights):

The Border Collie is a workaholic which thrives on
mental and physical exercise. That is the good news.
The bad news is that these are the very traits that can
make him difficult to live with. A fenced yard or
enclosure is important to keep your Border Collie safe.
Traffic is especially hazardous for this breed, since the
dogs may tend to try to herd cars if not kept out of
harm's way. A fenced area will not provide enough
physical exercise, nor will a walk around the block and a
few tossed balls. Boredom is the source of many
behavioral and training problems. A Border Collie that is
alone for long periods of time may tend to develop
compulsive behaviors such as chewing or digging. This
is not a dog that will happily lie in a corner and watch the
world go by. In addition to being intelligent and eager,
as a breed they can be inventive, strong-willed,
independent, territorial, and manipulative. They are
driven to participate in as many family activities as
possible. It is up to you to make this constructive.
Performance activities such as herding, agility,
obedience, daily running, biking, or other outdoor
activities can help provide the physical and mental
exercise a Border Collie requires. It is appealing in a
thirty second TV commercial, but this dynamo can be
frustrating in some pet home environments.

The Border Collie may herd moving objects and people.
When misdirected towards cars, children, bicyclists,
roller bladers, cats, squirrels, rushing water and any
other moving things, the Border Collie's herding instinct
can be a problem for the entire neighborhood. Most
Border Collies react very quickly to stimulation, which
can make them sensitive to sudden sounds and
movement. Although they can serve as enjoyable
companions for mature well-behaved children who are
experienced with animals, Border Collies may find the
noisy games of younger children disturbing and
over-stimulating. This may evoke inappropriate herding
behaviour, even including nipping, on the part of the
dog.

I didnt say I wasnt going to be working her, I just said she isnt going to be allowed to herd my rabbits, and she hasnt shown herding drive yet. She is only 8 weeks old.

As for the AKC, it just goes to show how much they REALLY know about the BC breed. Ask a working breeder, they arent supposed to be OCD, or allowed to be OCD when it comes to stuff like that. Chasing cars and such, it happens, but if you correct it and dont allow it, then it can be fixed. We arent talking about a conformation dog, she is pure working lines, and the AKC standard fits AKC bred dogs. I dont think it fits the breed at all. She wont get that way because I wont let her. If you train dogs, you should seriously understand that and not jump to so many conclusions about the breed because of what the AKC says what they THINK the temperament should be.

Diane

Right now , without knowing your breeder , all I can say is I wish you well !!!! To me no 8 week old pup should have ANY aggression towards anything if socialized properly from the beginning . I'll be interested how this works out for you . There are many here who will have good advise . I can't because I've never had the problem through proper breeding .

Hmm I agree with the above. What is your breeder saying? Food guarding in a pup that young is VERY disturbing. And you know what, even well bred BC can develop OCD. IMO it has more to do with the dog having an outlet, than the bloodlines. And introducing your pup to rabbits at that age will do squat. Working bred (read well bred working bred) BC will herd anything. You will have to teach her what should and what should not be herded.

If you had done your research you would know that the AKC BC are having less issues like this, as they seem to be breeding out the herding drive. So its less of an issue in kennel club dogs.

Coming from a malinois background, I don't find food guarding in young pups so unusual. BCs and mals are not that different, so it doesn't surprise me that BCs do it too. Keep in mind that she is a baby and was most likely competing fiercely with her litter mates over toys and food. So, she thinks everyone wants her stuff. Hand feeding prevents the issue.

I would also address the issue- feed her from a bowl, and stay standing next to her. When she is not stiff or growly, then you take your hand off and walk away. The puppy learns that you are not going to steal it even though you stand next to her and that you won't leave when she is stiff or growly. The big thing here is to make sure that the aggression does not scare you off.

When she is good with that, stand next to her and lay a hand on her back. Move away as soon as she relaxes and is eating well without any stiffness or growling.

When she is good with that, stand next to her with really tasty treats and drop them into her bowl as she eats. When that is good, reach down and put the treats into her bowl as she eats. The key here is never doing so much that you make her stiffen. Watch her body and do not add more treats if she is stiff, only if she is calm.

As she gets older you also need to teach "give" as an obedience command so that you can get things out of her mouth or call her off a food bowl in a way that makes sense and isn't a battle. I also agree that this isn't about dominance, it's about insecurity. Teach her to trust you and train her to obey you.

Good Luck and enjoy her!

I think I have stated before that she has stopped the food aggression, she only had it her first day with me, I hand fed her the next two days, and it stopped.

As for the OCD thing, I agree any BC can develop it, but out right saying that she is going to herd and try and kill my rabbits isnt a true statement at all. I do have an idea of how I am going to train her, and I have considered the rabbits in my breed decision, and before I was educated on the true working border collie, I had no interest in getting one in fear of my rabbits. Lets just say I have been informed. Most peoples perception on a working border collie is wrong. Its, what I would consider, equal to that of judging another breed, like a Pit bull, or lab, because pits were bred with power, and labs were bred to have things in their mouths, untrained, they cause a threat, same with BCs. Most OCD dogs, are ones that were let get bored and then the OCD behavior kicked in. I am not going to ever let it get that way, but saying just because she is a BC she will act a certain way and do certain things, without any knowledge of actually OWNING a working bred BC, and breeding them for years. I dont think anyone who hasnt can tell me how screwed up and neurotic she is going to be. Thats just my take on things, I probably took it the wrong way, but seeing as I read the replies like I would any other breed label, I strongly disagreed.

I do admit, I panicked the first night, I posted here, and on another forum looking for answers (I have never dealt with food aggression before). Needless to say, I found those answers. She is no longer food aggressive. We do have lots of training to do, but what new puppy doesnt need training?

Thanks for the replies about how to fix the food aggression, if she ever gets it back, then I will try one of the other methods suggested.

Diane

Umm wow I think you missed the point of my post. And you make some pretty strange assumptions about my experience with working BC.. Strange as it may seem I live in Sheep country. There are over 250 sheep on neighboroughing farms alone. So please don't assume you know what experience I have. I also own a working breed, I am not a fan of conformation shows, I know what a struggle it is to maintain a working breed, so please don't patronize me.

Please re read my post
NOWHERE did I say she will be screwed up, NOWHERE did I say she will be neurtotic. AND all I said is that if you don't train her to herd something else she will herd rabbits (children, ducks etc) if she has any kind of instinct at all. And that can't be accomplished with such a young pup.

But hey if you think you know everything about BC then, well you won't care about my expriences

Hmmm...

Honestly, I would consider ANY quality working BC to be OCD - of course, to an extent. A dog who is out of control, and cannot listen while working, is not a good representative of the breed. But to say that BCs really, truly love to work is an understatement. They need to have an innate desire to herd moving objects, to do the daily work that they have been bred for hundreds of years for. Of course, training is a big factor in managing a BCs drive.

I would totally not assume your puppy will end up neurotic, and I completely disagree with the "every BC has issues" sentiment. I fostered bunnies and had one bun, and I have a very high drive BC... from nothing but working lines. And, yes, he would obsess over them if he was allowed to. He could sit and stare at their cages for hours. The key was not allowing him to get into that mindset, and giving him very limited, supervised time with the buns. He would not hurt a "hare" (teehee) on their heads, however! Prey drive should not be confused with herding drive... yes, they are similar, but the difference is that a prey-driven animal is most likely chasing to kill; the herding dog has been bred to display hunting LIKE behaviors, but typically the most harm a Border Collie will do to a small animal is eye them to death.

Gonzo actually became good friends with my bunny. He has also made friends with ferrets, and cats. Introduce them very slowly, always supervise, and limit their time together... if she starts becoming obsessive, you need to take it even slower.

I'm glad your pup's food aggression was just a little phase, anyhoo. : ) It really is a bad sign, however, and I encourage you to keep up with the hand-feeding, trade me games, and of course bite inhibition training. Oh... and post pictures pleeeaase!

I completely agree with what you've said... except for this.

I have met countless BCs, from awesome working lines, who have never been formally trained to herd in their life. And they are totally happy and well-adjusted. There are TONS of options, as far as keeping a BC busy... they are work-a-holics, and they do need a job, which is why they kick bootay in practically any dog sport.

Gonzo has only been to a few herding classes, for fun, and he is a very happy dog, who has learned to leave bunnies alone for the most part.

Personally, I wouldn't wait for the behavior to return. You know she can do it, so go ahead and put a few minutes a day into desensitization exercises. It won't do any harm and it will mostly likely do a lot of good in the long term.

Ok very true, I should have said need a job . But I was a big angry that my post had not been 'read' as wrote. We were talking herding, so I stuck with herding.

Sounds like you're disagreeing with yourself somewhere.

When I said "every BC has issues," I didn't mean that to be insulting, so I hope that no one took it that way. The OP said, half-jokingly, "my dog has issues," so I was simply trying to make her feel like she's not alone.

To me, "issues" are anything that you have to work on in training, whether that means that your puppy is not potty trained and nips your hands, or your adult dog attacks kids. I would argue that almost every pet dog who lives in a home has issues. My dog certainly does, I'll be the first to tell anyone that. Maybe it's just my cynical side of being a dog trainer and helping hundreds of households every week deal with their dogs' issues that believes it must be almost all dogs, but I'd love it if someone reading this who has ever had a dog with no issues would let me know that I'm wrong.

Hmm. I think you're setting yourself up for failure if you think "every BC has issues so it's okay if mine does too".

May I ask who bred your puppy?

Border Collies are tenacious and will push their boundaries as puppies, I think firm but kind boundaries and some motivational training will really jump start your relationship with the pup.

Every one of my BCs started out a little food guardy, puppies (especially from high drive, intense breeds) often do that. Often they grow out of it, sometimes with the help of a little desensitization. I would HAND FEED this puppy every meal, ask for simple behaviors before feeding. After a couple weeks of that, bring out a bowl and drop some food in it, making sure to put your hand in the bowl as you offer the food. But don't provoke the puppy in order to see what its boundaries are. Just keep encouraging non-aggressive responses to your presence and your hands.

Teach the pup to "leave it" and always ask for a "leave it" before you take something away, and when you do take something away, replace it with something just as good or better.

Is this your first Border Collie?