Thinking of giving up Oakley

I've not been in your shoes before, I don't envy you and I don't have a lot of suggestions. But, this jumped out at me.

What about more structured exercise? Running around mindlessly/playing fetch does little to nothing for my dogs. They are still physically set to go and mentally it did nothing besides get them amped up.

But biking? Hiking (on a long line for a dog with unpredictable temperament)? That type of stuff takes it out of them physically and mentally. Short training sessions that are very mentally taxing such as shaping things and working on self control/impulse control. Even flirt pole with impulse control and training thrown in.

That might do more for him on the exercise front than any game of fetch or just free running around a park. And, if you plan ahead I think it would take less of your time overall.

I don't know the whole story...


Have you worked with an actual behaviorist?

Another thought... I know you said he gets walks every day but can't go to the park to run off steam every day? Have you tried switching up one of his walks to something like a training session? Mia is a busy, whining, vocal dog and I find with her that yes, a good run out a few times a week is necessary but you get a lot more out of mental stimulation than leashed walks as far as taking off the egde. And doing both via ball playing and training at the same time, doing agility work in the yard, or doing balance work is even better. Feeding via a food toy or making your own food puzzles is another way you could give him something to do that could potentially help with the whining and it takes just the same amount of time as putting down a regular bowl of kibble. Just some ideas about how to get more out of your time possibly.

I still think either a calm down in the crate or a 'go to your spot' will help.

^^ Just talking about the whining and demand barking there.

Just called the behaviorist closest to me...she will call back within a week (great). Oh, he was on clomipramine, btw.

hmm, thanks! good points. I try to integrate a lot of 'sit/stays' within our park trips, but have certainly never tried a flirt pole (not really familiar, but I'll look into it). We go hiking when we can, but just harder to do time-wise & because the easy, local hikes have lots of dogs on them, so that just never goes well.

I can play with biking a bit more with him. We've done it here & there, but it has never been super successful, but I;ve tried it mainly during the summer (when I finally got a bike!). Now that is colder, he might do better...didn't think to re-try. Thanks!!

I do the muffin pan thing or hide his food. He has gotten good though. Any favorites you'd recommend? I always have to find a perfect balance for him...easy things are too, well...easy. If it is a bit too hard though, he starts barking at whatever it is. But I do think adding more mental stimulation will be good. I can try to add more time-efficient things throughout the day and see how that affects things!

I agree with most of the posts above. It's hard to say without seeing Oakley in person if his issues mostly stem from lack of exercise and structure, or if he truly has anxiety/mental/aggression issues. What you're describing in this thread sounds like over stimulation and lack of stricture to me. But if he's biting people badly... I don't know it's really hard to say.

I agree that I would humanely euthanize before re-homing.

We had a GSD that became very aggressive. It got to the point that when we had people over, we HAD to lock her upstairs in a room because it was too much of a risk. She had tried to bite one of my friends, she had bitten 2 family members, and thankfully these people were family and understanding. We had complaints filed on her at our old house as well so she had a 'record' of sorts.

But she was extremely protective, was her problem. I was never worried about her with US (at least at that point). She was overly protective of me specifically. But one day, we had no idea she had gotten outside, and a guy came up to our yard to check our oil for the heater, and she went running from under the deck and attacked him. He had to go to the hospital, did not need stitches, but had lots of puncture wounds. He was actually very understanding as well, and felt horrible that he had to go to the hospital but since he was on the job, he had to report it.

Animal Control came and basically told us to put her down, or live a horribly sheltered life. And if it happened again, that would not be good. My dad, miserable, opted to put her down that day. I was at school. It was HORRIBLE. That dog was my baby. God I cried for days and days. I was mad, sad, frustrated. I knew a lot of it was our fault (she didn't come from a good breeder to start, she was untrained, and lacked exercise or any stimulation) but I was so young (14).

Looking back now though, it was just an accident waiting to happen. It was for the best. I can't imagine having to deal with that for another possibly 8-10yrs (she was only 4 when put down). It was the responsible thing to do on my dads part, he knew we couldn't handle it anymore, and didn't have the resources nor the time or energy. So it was almost a blessing in disguise. And it was VERY hard on us. We still talk about that dog to this day and feel that we failed her. But in the end, I really believe it was just her wiring and her genetics. I'm not sure anything we could've done would've helped that much. And she was a loved dog while she was here, and she was a great protector of her family. We just did the best we could at the time, with what we had.

Also, while not a fix as it sounds like his issues are deeper, what impulse control have you worked on? Does he have a lot of options of what TO do when anxious or wound up? Have you trained a calm or settle?

Behaviorist is definitely your best bet - but I really like this book and it may have some ideas if you havent done a lot of impulse control work

Fired Up, Frantic, and Freaked Out

Odor work is my favorite easy mental workout (well easy for me). We do nosework (about to start competing) but you can train it at home easily and the kits are super cheap (or you could use any scent you want as long as it's not around the house normally). Mia and Summer both will search out and alert on birch odor so if it's bad outside or something.

Also perch work is a great physical workout. I got a balance disk for Mia and you can see how much she has to work to balance on it.

Trick training is also good. We usually don't just do ball playing but we incorporate the ball/fetch as a reward. OR toss the ball and make her stay then release her, etc.

We also do a lot of impulse games like greenmagick posted about. They've been very good for Mia.

And if she's just SO wound up that she's screeching at me, we put her on her mat until she's calm and THEN we play and train.

For food toys, I love the IQ ball if he's not a huge chewer (it might hold up, I'm not sure).

THIS. THIS. THIS. Again, this.

Food toys (Wobbler, Tug a Jugs, Frozen Kongs, ect), flirt pole, clicker training (seriously, a 10-15 minute clicker training session will wipe him out way harder than a game of fetch), IYC, Crate Games.

All things that are great for anxious dogs. How do I know? Because I have one as well. And yeah, some days homework is piled up and work is wanting me to come in for more hours and my husband wants the house cleaned and Rider is licking the couch. Because why? LACK OF PHYSICAL AND MENTAL STIMULATION. So what do I do? I grab a single hot dog out of the fridge and we work on something.

I'm really not trying to be rude, but it just doesn't seem like you are willing to put in the time to try to fix this. You want others to tell you this one certain thing will fix it and that this herb will do the trick and that's not the case. Anxiety meds and a behaviorist will probably do WONDERS. But guess what? I bet you anything mental work will help even more on top of that. Teach the dog a settle command, crate train him, and get your clicker out. After 2 months, reeval.

Euthanasia is always an option for a dog with aggression and a bite history. Living with Rider is no walk in the park. I understand what it's like living with a fearful, anxiety ridden dog. I do. But thankfully, I've found an appropriate way to manage and Rider lives a close to normal life. We are still working on his fear of men, but it's come a **** long way.

I hope that you are either able to find that peace with Oakley or you are able to come to terms with the fact that his quality of life is gone and that it's time for you to put him down.

I am willing to put in work, it just cant be 2 hour walks. So all these ideas on mental stimulation are very helpful. I think I've had so many people tell me that I need to be taking him for 2 hour walks/park plays, etc everyday, that I forgot/didn't realize a 10-15 minute mental stim session might be more useful. I think I've been prioritizing walks over those sessions, cause I always thought I was cheating him out of physical activity or something if I was having to choose one over the other on hectic days.

I came here for options, and I have lots now! I am excited to re focus my energies with him on the RIGHT things vs wasting time on the wrong things (well, not like a walk is ever bad, but you know what I mean!)


Laurelin, thanks for all the ideas - those look fun! I guess I've indirectly done nosework with him & he really seems to like that, so I like that idea. Balane stuff sounds fun too!

I really do hope you find these help. Impulse control would help a lot and you got some awesome suggestions from a lot of people. Also, you can do impulse control work with a flirt pole as well ( I don't know if that was said as I'm just jumping in from doing HW so I haven't read the last page).

Again, I think the recommendations about finding a v-beh are a very good resource as well. I would definitely follow through with that.

THANKS! Buying it right now. From the reviews, it sounds like it will really fill in the gap I've had so many issues with... i.e. Oakley actually knows & is good at a lot of tricks...but all goes to hell if a bus drives by. I;ve worked with trainers, so I am hoping this book can offer more. So many of the solutions are based on 'get as close as you can to the stimulus until you see him getting anxious...the reward there while he still listens & then walk away" or whatever. That really isn't helpful when you live in an area where buses/ambulances drive by every 5 minutes. They don't exactly stop & wait for your dog to not react. I know that is probably always a part of training, but hpefully this book will offer more options!

Dreeza, what about a class or a sport with him? You're in the heart of NoVA dog country, my favorite training places are all super close to you. Would agility/rally/nosework/flyball help?

I take classes through Woofs! in Shirlington (they have a few of the non-equipment classes in Ballston), and Melissa Frye their head sports instructor is fabulous with reactive dogs of all ages. (I am fairly certain that Erica does the obedience side of things, and she's a master at reactivity as well).

It would give you one night a week to get out of the house with him, and help you build the skills to work on things at home the rest of the week.

http://www.woofsdogtraining.com/

You've had some fantastic advice given to you, the one other thing I have to add (going off if Cali's recommendation) is building agility equipment and doing it at home. Most pieces of equipment are pretty cheap to build, and ten minutes of agility is way more tiring to most dogs than a 45 minute walk.

Actually it is helpful to have buses or ambulances (if those are triggers) go by so frequently, because it means you have ample opportunity to work on it.
That advice is poor, however. If you see him getting anxious, you're too late and too close. Find the point where he first gets anxious, make a note of how close that is. Next time keep several steps BACK from that point. Reward THERE. You don't want the dog to have a negative reaction and then stop reacting - you want to reward for a calm reaction in the presence of a trigger.

Sorry, that is what they said, I repeated too quickly. The problem is, he is barking at them constantly out the window. So he gets constant "LOOK MOM, I barked and it went away!" reinforcement all. day. long.
That being said, hopefully some of the impulse work will allow me to build up to working with the buses (cause on some days, he totally ignores them, so I do always try to reward him then). I think they are just too much, too fast. It is hard to work with him/find that point at that certain distance from them, as they are barreling towards us at 35 mph! Eventually!

I would so, so, so love to do this. I've actually on & off looked into these, but I;ve been too scared to given his reactivity, especially since the pre-reqs always say that they have to be dog friendly. Once my program starts & I can know my schedule (cause as of right now it is 'expect some online teleseminars some weeknights...which isn't exactly conducive to planning anything!!!), I'll see if they are willing to work with him.

I really don't have anything to add, but I wanted to say that I feel like you have a really good attitude and I hope you are able to make this work! It seems like you are willing, and you deserve props for that, especially since he wasn't even "your" dog to start with. It is obvious you love him, and again, I hope you are able to find a solution.

I just got the new class schedule from Woofs. There are Sunday afternoon/evening classes that might work? It's not on the website yet.

Nosework/Tricks/Novice obedience on Sunday afternoons in Ballston, and Agility 1 or Flyball 1 on Monday and Tuesday nights.

If you sign up for agility, they do an evaluation night so Melissa can meet you and your dog and give you tips before the first class on how to be successful, especially if you have a stressy/reactive dog.