Breeder etiquette/deposit question

Ok, I'm in a bit of a situation here and I wanted to ask all you folks for your opinions on it.

I put down a deposit on a litter with a certain breeder quite a few months back. Then, it turned out that the female was not pregnant. At this point in time, the breeder told me she didn't think she would repeat the litter. None of her other litters coming up were quite what I wanted, so I asked if I could have my deposit back. She agreed. A little bit later she tells me she has decided to try a repeat of the litter, am I sure I want my deposit back? I say yes.

I decided to get a puppy from a different breeder. I still haven't received my deposit back from breeder #1. I send her a really polite email explaining that I am getting a puppy from a different breeder (one that she has got dogs from before), because the litters she has coming up just don't quite suit what I want, and the timing works well for me to get a puppy now and not wait for the repeat litter from her. Suddenly, she tells me that the deposit was non-refundable, and she's very unhappy that I asked for it back. It still sounds like she's going to refund it though.

Now, a few months later, I still haven't received the deposit. I write her an email politely asking if she sent it and it got lost, or she didn't send it?

She writes back saying she didn't send it, and that it was non-refundable, and that her kennel manager and partner think she shouldn't refund it, but she said she would, so how about we meet halfway and she gives me half the deposit back?

I know how I feel about this, but I'd like some other opinions! Thoughts??

It's not like you put down a deposit, then backed out on getting a puppy. You put down a deposit and there were no puppies, so I think you should be refunded.

Did she ever make you sign a contract? If so go through it and see if anywhere in there it states deposits are non-refundable.

Either way, I'd be pissed. Sounds like a shady breeder.

I'd send her a copy of the email where she said you'd get your deposit back and ask her to fulfill her prior promise.

Do you have something in writing saying if it was refundable or not? Without that, it's going to be tough to make a case.

My answer would depend on...

a) How much money it was. $100, I'd let it go. $1000, I'd be more apt to fight for it.
b) How much time/energy you have to argue over it. It's basically he said/she said. Unless you want to take the time to go to small claims court and fight it, it's going to be very difficult to get it back if they dig their heels in and say "sorry, charlie".

^this. Not your fault she decided AFTER SHE TOLD YOU NO REPEATS that she decided to try again. You went elsewhere, rightfully. You should get it back.

Nothing in writing saying it was non-refundable. In fact, she never even mentioned that it was non-refundable before I paid it (I assumed though, of course). She now says it states that on my "receipt" but I don't think I even got a receipt!?

It was $500.

Uhh, she said she'll send it back so she should send it back!!!

Do you have the email where she agreed? I think you'd be well within your rights to hold her to it.

You put a deposit down on a litter, it fell through and she wasn't going to repeat it and AGREED to give it back. If she wanted to be a hardass, that was the time to do it.

I thought the whole point of a deposit was to reserve a place in the litter, assure the breeder you're serious and won't flake out when the pups need homes, and to give the breeder a little financial boost during pregnancy and 0-8 weeks. You haven't inconvenienced her, made her turn away other buyers, stuck her with a puppy or denied her financial support for the litter you wanted, sooo...?

Were you specific in your original agreement that you were after a pup from that breeding, not just any pup from her? Regardless if she agreed to return it, that's that.

Seems to me that she's being difficult.


ETA $500?? Yeah. You should get that back imo. All of it.

This. Then go from there depending on what she said.

I completely agree with everyone that the breeder should return it, but the logistics of actually getting it aren't that simple. Just because she put it in an email that she would doesn't mean she has to do it.

Unless the OP is really willing to threaten/follow through with legal action, there's nothing to be done if the breeder refuses to give it back.

OP, how willing are you to burn bridges? A, "I am sorry that you think $250 is worth risking your reputation as a breeder. I am disappointed to hear that you treat prospective owners this way, and will be informing others in the *breed* community of how I was treated." might get you the money back, but it might just **** her off to the point that she with holds all the deposit, and then you're worse off.

Yes, I was absolutely completely clear that I wanted a puppy from that litter, not just any puppy.

And I still have all our conversations, most of it was on FB messaging.

Yeah, exactly, could go either way. I'm not sure if I want to go that route. I am very certain now that I don't want to deal with this breeder again, but I really don't like getting nasty!

All of the previous answers. LOL. I know LOTs of breeders do non-refundable but they all come with the "unless there are no puppies/puppies that suit what you need" and they're all litter specific.

She's prob just being pissy bc you went with another breeder and she lost you buying you buying a puppy.

So depending on the size of the deposit I would fight for it back. You did nothing wrong. And I woul obviously never deal with this breeder again.

I am, sadly, not surprised. I would continue to insist on getting the money back. Refer to old emails but definitely mention the possibility of others' hearing about this poor treatment of a prospective buyer.

Agreed with sending her a copy of where she said she was going to refund it. Send her a copy of every time she said she would refund it.

In most cases, yes, deposits are non-refundable and that is 100% understandable. However she AGREED to refund it to you and now is trying to go back on that. No. If you agree to give me my money back, you are expected to follow through on that... not just back out later because you changed your mind.


If she still holds out, ask her if she would please produce the receipt so you can present it, along with your conversations where she agreed to refund your money, to the police, and they can then make a decision based on evidence presented if she has stolen cash from you or not and decide if further action is warranted.
And that's not a threat because I would indeed contact the local police if she doesn't give you your money back to see if you can press charges for theft.

Sorry. My Internet is running slow. Haha.

For now I would forward her the previous email where she said she would give it back and explain that you went with another breeder bc the specific litter you wanted out of didn't take, and that she had already agreed to give you a full refund.

Thing is, this person already acknowledged that she agreed to give the deposit back. I'd ask for a copy of the receipt as well and remind her that you haven't done her business any harm. And be as nice as possible I guess. You can always escalate things later if persistent niceness doesn't work.

And I'd screenshot and/or video (hard to forge a video) all facebook messages, if you haven't.

If you have it writing that she stated she would return the deposit, I'd cite that.

Otherwise it sounds like the deposit was sent without clear guidelines, in which case you have little recourse other than to ask clearly and hope.

Then again I dislike the entire practice of litter deposits especially when terms are not spelled out in writing. And the idea of taking a deposit before even confirming pregnancy... I don't get it.

To me non-refundable means for THAT litter at THAT time. If the breederr is the one responsible for no pup (as in failed breeding), then it is the breeder's responsibility to give it back. If the litter was born and then YOU backed out, that wouldn't be refundable. But that's not what happened here. I'd keep pushing for the deposit back and go to small claims court if it comes down to it.

Yeah, I would never be comfortable putting down a deposit on a puppy that didn't even exist, to the point where they hadn't even figured out if the dam was pregnant. I think that's.. strange to ask for it so early on.