IF a middle school councilor

I would think, JUST based on the story presented, no its fine. And I am pretty hyper alert to things like this AND do not like being touched, especially by males. When trying to get the truth out of someone, yes, often people make direct contact. A shoulder or a knee touch and direct eye contact make the connection stronger and harder for the person to evade or ignore the situation. A knee touch, without rubbing etc is most likely nothing to get in arms about, especially if there is nothing else going on with it. It may be uncomfortable if one is trying to avoid the "talk" because that often makes it harder to lie. It also may be uncomfortable just because of not liking people in your space, which is understandable, but does not make the other person wrong.

Technically, that escalated to something not even directed at this thread. Unless my parents are now the counsellor or something. Who knows.

What's uncomfortable to me, is not going to be the same thing that's uncomfortable to you. Period. It's going to differ, and this is why kids need to have a voice. They need to be taught to say no. They need to be taught to get up and walk away.

Cause quite frankly, situations like this, are why there are less and less good, caring counsellors out there, and more people who really mean bad. Because they aren't saying when they are uncomfortable, before it's too late (to which I am not specifically talking about the counsellor in this case)

Exactly, it may be uncomfortable, and you'll have to get used to it. You're going to be made uncomfortable thru all sorts of scenarios in life. Just because something makes one uncomfortable, doesn't make it automatically inappropriate.

I will add though a shoulder or arm touch could have, in theory accomplished the same goal. I fear though that too could be seen as vile.

And again, coming from someone who is uncomfortable with touching, I agree this country is becoming too sterile.

If my child was at school and something upset them, I would be LIVID if a teacher or counselor just sat there and said "there there" from across the room. That is a horrible scenario.

Also, again, not knowing the situation as it happened, a man sitting across the table/desk from you reprimanding can be MUCH colder and bullish than someone trying to make that human connection IMO

I started to add this to my post but got off track. HOnestly, with a 12 year old girl, I think a shoulder or arm touch could be worse. I think of depending of the way they were sitting he would have to get much close, it would be more apparent the height difference and worse, its easier to "miss" or brush up against her chest.

Yep. Honestly, I'd be much more comfortable if somebody put their hand on my knee, even if it touches the inner of my leg, than putting a hand on my arm or shoulder.

I have. Many, many times. Someone placing their hand on a person's knee to say something to the effect of, "Look, I need you to be honest with me" is a form of light confrontation. The physical aspect of that particular body language is to reinforce the "look." Look at me while I'm speaking to you; that's not bullying, it's a simple matter of asking for a respectful gesture via body language. Also, if you're sitting and facing each other, the knee is the least invasive part of the other person's body.

Seriously ????? NOT ME.

I pitty the teacher who puts there hands on my kids. i teach them that you invite touches not have to be subjected to them. They have personal space and if anyone violates it tell me and Mommy will handle it .

Maybe because I have a special ed kid and he would be easily taken advantage of i am hyper-vigilant in these kinds of things

Nope, I have two female superiors now, and had two at my last job. Out if those four women there is only ONE that I would be comfortable having them touch my inner knee, and that is because we are close friends. The other 3? No sir--it has nothing to do with it being sexual, I don't think any of those women have the intention of molesting me. That is just a gesture that I feel is reserved for close friends and family--it carries an intimacy with it.

To put it in dog terms, there is physical contact that Sally accepts from Jack that she would NEVER be OK with from another dog. I'm pretty sure it's not that Sally thinks she will be molested by the other dogs, it's a personal space issue.

BTW, I asked Nate (the husband) what he thought and he said he found it inappropriate, unprofessional, and a violation of personal space.

Touching the arm = closer. Closer = more intimate. More intimate = more uncomfortable.

That depends entirely on the kid. At that age I wouldn't have said sh!t if my mouth was full of it to an authority figure like that.

I was taught, BTW, to speak up if someone made me uncomfortable and went to school in the era where good touch/bad touch was pounded into our heads. However, I still would not have said anything.

Sounds like someone forgot to mention that bit of information in the OP.

Well, since you're not going to, I'll clarify it myself... It is that saying something like this:


Is just as ridiculous as it would be IF I said something like "well to some of you, I guess anything goes and random strangers can just run up and grab my boob whenever they like".

I'm not saying either statement is true. I'm saying that drawing those types of conclusions based on what people have said in this thread is completely ridiculous.

I'm pretty sure the OP was asking in general, due to the wording. So it wasnt really forgotten.

It's common knowledge if you've read any of her other threads.

the particular info that I deleted out of REe's post is private and should not be disclosed on line. IT has nothing to do with if or if not the touch was appropriate which is why I stated the scene exactly as I saw it.


what if your a 12 yr old in crisis and no one is believing her tho she is repeatedly stating so, this being the "
lie". Would you still speak up if you were her? EVerything is falling apart inside of you and this man is calling you a liar and touching you.

Then after a discussion with me about how the bus is a trigger and I should go back to driving her he personally walked her to the bus and put her on it with the two girls she just ratted out for inhaling enamel spray paint which is why we were in the er the night before, she was playing with the can and we had a very terrifying ordeal and are very lucky that she is alive and unharmed by it.

I told the councilor I would be there to pick her up. I was there to pick her up as we had agreed on. I had to get home as quickly as I could to beat the bus. Hyia is now in the hospital and will be until next Friday. She needs some vibes and a ton of love and understanding. HE knew fully well all about this, and he put her on the bus anyway.This was the final straw. SHe will not get to have field day, or award ceremony where she earned one for a high grade. She will not get to have any of the last of year fun. I Told her to think of something she would really enjoy when she gets out and we would go do just that .So we are planning a family trip to the aquarium that just opened. I also told her if she would like to paint her room she has right up until the paint is mixed to change her mind so it would give her something positive and fun to think about. I feel so bad about the whole thing there are just no words. Would things have escalated without his "help" and i mean that as sarcastic as I can, probably. BUT he is suppose to be someone she can look to for help, and guidance, and this is what he gave her. She will never see him again and I will make sure of that. He didn't just push her over the edge her tossed her over the abyss.

. I was standing outside in front of the building to pick her up. I didn't write that part first because I wanted objective perspectives that this touch was or was not appropriate to the situation. It didn't matter what was being said, if it was a boy or a girl, or even what the "lie" was about. She said she wasn't ready to go back to school, she was asked to leave the room where I was told she would be fine. She has done this many times before. He has no clue what he has done.

THAT--in spades! Working with children--you have to know how to not put yourself or the child in a situation that can be misread by either party.

And I don't believe every 12 year old would have the ability to stand up to an adult "authority" figure. 12 year olds are sorting out so many things--and then if they have other emotional/health needs--well, it is up to the adult to be diligent in appropriateness of their interactions.

Is there any kind of special ed advocate at your school?

I had the Principal and the social worker in my living room the next morning. I was not ready for either I was exhausted, two hosptials two nights in a row, but they wanted to come so they were invited in. I am not raising a flag saying the guy is a pedophile, I am saying I do not like one bit what he did because it was inappropriate and in a position of power over my child's well being. I felt his actions were very passive aggressive. I felt he was that way with me with his off color jokes. But even that has nothing to do with what I witnessed.