Flyball?

I had trouble at first getting Steve to give up the ball for a tug. We worked a lot on Premacking it- if he'd tug, he'd get the ball thrown. No tug, no ball throwing. Whether it was just luck or actually sound training methods, I ended up with a dog with a helluva tug drive even in the face of Ball Ball Ball Ball OMG BALL

I just restarted Steve in agility. He's definitely one of those over-the-top dogs and flyball has probably exacerbated it, but he had that before he ever saw a flyball box. I'm curious to see how things go for him. His breeder competes very successfully with a couple of her flyball dogs (and they're sub-4 dogs, so very motivated, drivey dogs) in agility, so it can definitely be done. I'm not sure what she starts first.

A nice Papillon could be a great flyball dog, and I bet a lot of fun.

I never said those times were uber fast, we have loads of great flyball dogs in the area too. My point was its the drivier dogs that have more issues. The happy but dump de dump dogs don't seem to have any issues switching sports.

I also know dogs who are cross trained in lots of sports... lol um ever look at my dogs and the titles on them?

Yep old school and not accurate, however if you train your dog to focus on you and wait to be told what to do, it CAN impact your agility where the dog needs to take more initiative. It's not squelching drive, it's about training your dog how you want them to listen to you.

That's great, I am glad that seems to be working for you, BUT how many titles do your dogs have now? I am talking from the perspective of someone with a variety of titles (yay for title whoring lol) and from talking to people who have oodles upon oodles of titles in all sorts of things.

This has always made me laugh. NO rally does NOT make for sloppy handling. Sloppy training makes for sloppy performance. I train rally to serious obed criteria. (I did start dog sports in obed) It has nothing to do with the sport, and everything to do with the trainer. Just because the judge had to remind people doesn't mean they are sloppy handlers. The obed club I trained with was big into talking to their dogs (and shock collars...) I however train silently so its not a big change. Once again it has nothing to do with rally, and everything to do with how people train their dogs. A good heel is a good heel period.

The agility club I messaged you about (I think I replied to that PM, right?) is only about an hour from where you live... I don't know exactly how long if you traveled the high way. I'm thinking back roads.

The club I am with would be the closest one to you, for sure, though. Unless there's one in Maine.

Sorry to hijack the thread -- but are YOU near Fredericton? I think we need to have an NB meet up!

Our training groups have become professionals at encouraging a tug drive, training with whippets and whippet mixes. lol

One thing I've been told to try (which may cross over to your gal) is take away the ball entirely. Once they become fixated on one object it can be incredibly hard to re-fixate. So for the time being the dog will only see a tug, only play with a tug, and that's it. No ball play. He'll meet the ball again at training sessions but not until the tug is trusty. Of course this can be harder on a baby toothed pup.

Also if you look on lure coursing sites and greyhound sites they have really dog attractive toys that look like animals and have these awesomely annoying squeakers that sound off like a rabbit when they are shaken. There are a few down falls with the way they are made but you can alter them when they're home or just find a better source.

We're using these to get our whippetx and our newest mal up, we'll probably try these for the shiba puppies as well because it might be hell getting these dogs up and running but their handlers are dedicated.

No, I'm from MA but I travel there a couple times a year to play Flyball. I have friends in the area.

How many times a week does the club meet up? Cause I could possibly make that drive, well convince my parents, if it was only once a week.

And about the NB meet up, I'm not super close.. but my grandmother does live there, so if we ever did have one (which Cali would love!)... then I could always get my dad to drive me down and he could just visit his mom while all that is happening.

From where you told me you lived, or there abouts, plus the pictures of your horse (I recognize the show grounds) me coming up with a couple of my crew to meet up with you and Cali wouldn't be a huge deal. I'm pretty sure I travel close to where you live (or at least close to where you show your horse!) almost every day for work, and come fall, I'll be going to school there too.

The Kapers have classes once a week. The thing with our club is that we don't do "training sessions" where everyone from all levels can come out and train together. It's something I'm trying to get them into. But we do classes, where a group of people in that level pay the fee and weekly meet and have the class together.

Actually, we're having a trial the 17th and 18th of September... you should try and come out for a day!

Yeah, it's pretty close to where I actually live, and I'm sure Cali would just -love- to meet a couple of your dogs. She doesn't get too many chances here as I usually only let her meet with dogs on leashes (with the owner's okay) and dogs that I know who are friendly and tolerant (as she tends to jump up in faces.. which isn't too great).

And oh, if it's only once a week, then I'll definitely have to look into it for her. I'll see about going one of the days, it'd be a great way to just observe and I'm sure Cali would get a bit of socialization out of it too.

I can see where you "get away" with more in rally than in traditional obedience, but honestly, from my limited experience in rally, if you are a sloppy handler its going to hurt you no matter what venue you compete in. You might get qualifying scores, but you're not going to be in the ribbons. You will have a tough time at bigger shows with more entries, and you'll have a tough time transitioning from novice to advanced, forget excellent. Yeah, some judges overlook a lot, but there are plenty of judges out there who will happily tick off the points at every station. Lets not forget that "rally" is not just rally Novice. The skills a dog needs for advanced and excellent are nothing to scoff at, and demand just as much of a dog as traditional obedience.

This novice round was a 98. Our second time in the ring EVER. Not one command was repeated, though I do give him a good bit of visual feedback for being good, I'm not chatting away at him the whole time either.
And yes, you bet I'm going to work on straightening out those downs!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dViKGk_zHpQ

Honestly all in how you train. The gal I work with would have my head if I did some of the stuff I see people try to get away with in rally (holding your hand like you have a treat for example). And she gets on me for my footwork and hand positions. She also has me working on trying to tighten up Bates' frog sit using a raised hard pad thing that we gradually make smaller. We spend a LOT of time on foundation stuff like attention and heel position.

Everyone wants to teach behaviors, behaviors, behaviors, but the bottom line is, no matter what your sport, the foundation is still the same - focus and engagement with the handler. Once you have that, it shouldn't matter what venue you're in, you communicate clearly with the dog what is expected. If the dog is doing things out of habit instead of listening to the handler, THAT is sloppy training IMO.

This. There are certainly people in rally who are sloppy handlers. And if that's "good enough" for them, who am I to judge? If they're getting out, training their dogs, and both handler and dog are having fun, who cares if they're sloppy?

My choice is to train to a higher level (though in truth, I'm not enough of a perfectionist to ever get amazing scores in traditional obedience) because it matters to me and I enjoy it.

Totally agree. I am happy people are wanting to do something with their dog. I am so not an ob person. I was so anti ob as it looked like so much non fun I didn't want to do rally. Eww heeling..

Cider's got an excellent rally title these days working on a championship one. While I still don't get off on heel, hers is pretty good and I don't reward sloppy.

I finally see that we may do obedience down the road, but doing rally first hasn't hurt my dogs.