Maybe. I have not looked at their breeding standards yet. How do you know so much about their breeding standards by visiting their website? I thought you said earlier that breeders cannot be judged by what they have on their website? You need to visit the breeder in person to make sure they are what they say or not what they say.
Suwannee Sunset Shibas
- Thread starter j0hnb
- Start date
Because they post about it.
I am surprised you are defending a breeder and you haven't even read their website.
Yes you can make some judgements. I never said you couldn't judge for certain if they are great.. but you can tell if they are bad.
If you re read my one post I got all that info about their breeding program from their site. I didn't make it up.
They state their health guarantee is only one year... will visiting them change that number? If not... they they are NOT good breeders.
They are breeding untitled dogs.. will visiting them confer majical titles on the dogs?
They are breeding the same pair.. they only have one breeding pair... will visiting them somehow give them more dogs?
They are breeding a dog who is an unallowable colour... will visiting them change the dog's colour or the breed standard?
They state that they are breeding to the AKC breed standard but are obviously not doing so.. will visiting them change the AKC standard to meet their dogs?
News Flash.. people don't lie on their websites to make themselves look worse... they lie to make themselves look better. So if a breeder says they have bad breeding practises why would they lie. Now yes you should talk to a breeder who says all the right things.. because they could be lying to make them selves look better.
I am surprised you are defending a breeder and you haven't even read their website.
Yes you can make some judgements. I never said you couldn't judge for certain if they are great.. but you can tell if they are bad.
If you re read my one post I got all that info about their breeding program from their site. I didn't make it up.
They state their health guarantee is only one year... will visiting them change that number? If not... they they are NOT good breeders.
They are breeding untitled dogs.. will visiting them confer majical titles on the dogs?
They are breeding the same pair.. they only have one breeding pair... will visiting them somehow give them more dogs?
They are breeding a dog who is an unallowable colour... will visiting them change the dog's colour or the breed standard?
They state that they are breeding to the AKC breed standard but are obviously not doing so.. will visiting them change the AKC standard to meet their dogs?
News Flash.. people don't lie on their websites to make themselves look worse... they lie to make themselves look better. So if a breeder says they have bad breeding practises why would they lie. Now yes you should talk to a breeder who says all the right things.. because they could be lying to make them selves look better.
"On our website, you will find information about the breed in general as well as American Kennel Club (AKC) standards for judging the breed"
They never said they breed dogs for the show ring or that they are registered with the AKC. The above statement says that you can find what the AKC standards are for Shiba Inus but not that they are following them. I know, it can be misleading to some visitors but they have not said anything contradictory from what I have read. Now, whether you want to buy a puppy from them or not and whether they are irresponsible that is another question.
They never said they breed dogs for the show ring or that they are registered with the AKC. The above statement says that you can find what the AKC standards are for Shiba Inus but not that they are following them. I know, it can be misleading to some visitors but they have not said anything contradictory from what I have read. Now, whether you want to buy a puppy from them or not and whether they are irresponsible that is another question.
They never logged in to even look... so how can you scare off people who never come back to read the responses?
Umm I do find you attitude towards bad breeding practices a bit disturbing considering the website you peddle.
Yes they are breeding an out of standard bitch. With all the shiba puppies in shelters and rescues why are they breeding non health tested, non titled, non breed standard puppies? If all breeding should be done with bettering the breed in mind.. well these people are missing it that by a mile!
Just what do YOU think they are doing right? (other than their web page loads fast so it won't scare off JQ Public puppy buyers)
Umm I do find you attitude towards bad breeding practices a bit disturbing considering the website you peddle.
Yes they are breeding an out of standard bitch. With all the shiba puppies in shelters and rescues why are they breeding non health tested, non titled, non breed standard puppies? If all breeding should be done with bettering the breed in mind.. well these people are missing it that by a mile!
Just what do YOU think they are doing right? (other than their web page loads fast so it won't scare off JQ Public puppy buyers)
This I agree with 100% You need to always look into everything a breeder says, and everyone has different Ideas of what is "good" but the basic stuff applies across the board. Just to clarify, I never once said they were good breeders... Just that I hate to see anyone jumped on their first post
And the OP never came back to even read to see if there were responses (at least not as of yet). I just call em as I see em... I would have warmly welcomed them in an intro thread, and admired their photo's in pic thread, given advice on a training thread...
Oh this wasn't to you And the OP never came back to even read to see if there were responses (at least not as of yet).
I just call em as I see em... I would have warmly welcomed them in an intro thread, and admired their photo's in pic thread, given advice on a training thread...
And the OP never came back to even read to see if there were responses (at least not as of yet). I just call em as I see em... I would have warmly welcomed them in an intro thread, and admired their photo's in pic thread, given advice on a training thread...
You do not need to log in to read the responses. I am not saying that what this breeder is doing is good, but your attitude is very offensive sometimes. I am not sure if you see it, but you attack anyone that does not agree with your opinion. Yes, you have an opinion. I have an opinion. I do not go and say, Dekka you are ridiculous or Dekka you have no clue what you are talking about. It seems to me that your opinion has to be the last word for every thread. God forbid someone has to say anything that offsets your opinion! :yikes:
oh my goodness....
I can't believe the nastiness that has gone on here between when I checked the forum the other day to see people's replies and my decision to respond today. Also, the hype about how long it's taken to respond... it's been what, not even 3 days? Honestly, we have lives. It was mother's day weekend and I have a 16-month old who's been sick with croup for the last week.
I had to think for a while to decide if it was even worth responding to the immediate criticisms we have received here. I did not feel it necessary to attempt to prove myself and perhaps only get caught up in a drawn-out battle of personal opinion differences. However, I do not want to leave anyone with a bad taste in their mouth, so I would like to go ahead and attempt to address everyone's questions and concerns at once, if that's ok. I'm sorry if this post seems too long, but I have a lot of thoughts I'd like to put out there.
The first is that this particular forum topic's is basically advertising, is it not? Whether for money or not, the point of this thread IS to advertise.
As to the post itself, it was actually done by my webmaster who has been trying to increase traffic to the site because we are in the process of launching a bigger site that will strictly be an informational/forum site for shiba owners/lovers. It is an idea I have been working on for a while, and we feel about ready to launch publicly. The hope is that increased traffic to suwannee will result in decent traffic to the new site. Shibas are not the most popular of dog breeds, so we're speaking to a niche here, but the people within that niche are rather hard to find. Enter Chazhound forums...
Trust me, we are not making any money by 'advertising' here, or anywhere else for that matter. The *very* little money we make off ads doesn't even cover domain registration costs, let alone hosting or the many work hours put into the site.
In addition, the post shares a link to our 'screencleaner' which we feel most people would enjoy, though it is silly and somewhat pointless. The page that contains our screencleaner contains no links back to our site, or any ads either. It is simply a fun thing to share. Therefore, all who are saying the post was to make money... well... it simply wasn't. There's no money involved. There aren't even any puppies available. This post was purely for promoting awareness.
As for the breeding...
The text of the post and our website states that we are FIRST an informational source, and secondly that we breed. The purpose of suwanneesunsetshibas.com is not strictly to advertise or sell puppies. Our main goal is to provide information. IF someone should be interested in a puppy, they can contact us and we may or may not be able to accommodate them. If someone is interested, we then provide them with the information you find lacking about our breeding goals, championship lines, and health testing, as well as choosing a respectable breeder, showing, agility, etc. They can then make their own decisions. The majority of people who view our website simply aren't interested in that much in-depth information. The majority of people, honestly, are looking for information on heartgard, frontline, or eukanuba, of all things. For people who do contact us, we also investigate their reasoning for wanting a puppy, what their goals are, and how they have familiarized themselves with the breed.
We actually have *not* bred the pair repeatedly, ad nauseam. You are correct in noting that our wording needs to be modified. It should state that we OWN one active breeding pair... NOT that we only produce puppies constantly from that one pairing. Our female is only bred once/year, if that, and any other puppies sired by our male are not 'ours' to be listed, therein resulting in the poor wording. The fact that we have chosen to only *own* one active breeding pair does not make us bad breeders. It makes us better owners.
We chose our cream female very specifically based on her lines, as well as our male's. No, she is not up to AKC color standards. However, her lineage is excellent. She IS AKC registered. Her lineage, combined with that of our male's, we were hoping to achieve a Champion Red Sesame. We did not get the desired sesame result, but we have gotten two show-quality reds, one male and one female, who are doing well in the rings.
In addition, the JKC DOES accept cream shibas. I even discuss why the AKC does not permit the cream coloring on suwannee. Personally, I hope that some day the AKC will change their standards to include the cream. That being said, we are NOT producing cream pups, and all pups that have gone to new homes have gone with the understanding that they carry the recessive cream coloring and breeding partners (if applicable) would need to be very carefully considered.
Our health guarantee extends to one year because congenital defects can be diagnosed within the first year after purchase. We assume that after the first year, problems that have not already been diagnosed as congenital may have occurred due to environmental factors. We do not have our entire contract online. It goes on to say:
Buyer(s) must notify the Breeder immediately. Breeder reserves the right to have the dog re-examined by their veterinarian at their cost. If the dog is then found not to be in good health, Breeder will resume possession if this is agreeable to both parties with full refund.........
If you have more information on the length of time you believe congenital defects should be covered, I would be interested in hearing it.
We actually do NOT claim anywhere on the website to be "experts" on the breed, nor do we claim to be breeding to AKC standards. However, our pups do meet AKC standards, and are all registered accordingly.
Finally, I would just like to say that no, we're not the best breeders in the world. We never claimed to be. But we're also not some puppy mill or group out to just make money. We haven't done anything but *lose* money yet. We make the most educated decisions we can make with the help of our mentors. Our dogs, and our puppies, are well taken care of. All puppies are microchipped with us as secondary contacts. We have a 100% acceptance return policy where if, for any reason, someone is unable to keep the dog they have gotten from us, we will take it back. We also have spay/neuter clauses for non-show/non-breeding quality dogs. So I must say that no, we are not contributing to the overcrowding of shelters problem. We are not a "BYB". We are, and always will be, completely accountable for every dog we produce.
Not that I support the idea that *anyone* can breed, but at the same time, when did it become such an elitist group? New breeds are developed by making "mutts".... old breeds have been injured by inbreeding. The Shibas wouldn't even exist today without interbreeding with the Kishu... they would have been lost forever. Anyway. I guess what I'm saying is that we all do the best we can do. Not every dog is show quality, but that is how people get pets... which, when you get down to it, the main purpose of any dog is companionship. Yes, they work, they hunt, they achieve... but they are our companions. So I guess you can all call me what you want, I'm sure there will still be disagreements over whether my program is up to standards or not.
Anyway.. I appreciate everyone's 'concerns' and hope that the answers provided will be adequate.
PS
Dekka--I am immensely curious about what you mean by this statement on your own website: "We strongly believe in the preservation of this working breed and don't support any form of inclusion in the CKC or other Kennel club." I can't honestly say by looking at your website that you look to be any more "reputable" a breeder than I do by looking at mine. I however, would refrain from judging you based upon yours... and I hate JRT's.
I can't believe the nastiness that has gone on here between when I checked the forum the other day to see people's replies and my decision to respond today. Also, the hype about how long it's taken to respond... it's been what, not even 3 days? Honestly, we have lives. It was mother's day weekend and I have a 16-month old who's been sick with croup for the last week.
I had to think for a while to decide if it was even worth responding to the immediate criticisms we have received here. I did not feel it necessary to attempt to prove myself and perhaps only get caught up in a drawn-out battle of personal opinion differences. However, I do not want to leave anyone with a bad taste in their mouth, so I would like to go ahead and attempt to address everyone's questions and concerns at once, if that's ok. I'm sorry if this post seems too long, but I have a lot of thoughts I'd like to put out there.
The first is that this particular forum topic's is basically advertising, is it not? Whether for money or not, the point of this thread IS to advertise.
As to the post itself, it was actually done by my webmaster who has been trying to increase traffic to the site because we are in the process of launching a bigger site that will strictly be an informational/forum site for shiba owners/lovers. It is an idea I have been working on for a while, and we feel about ready to launch publicly. The hope is that increased traffic to suwannee will result in decent traffic to the new site. Shibas are not the most popular of dog breeds, so we're speaking to a niche here, but the people within that niche are rather hard to find. Enter Chazhound forums...
Trust me, we are not making any money by 'advertising' here, or anywhere else for that matter. The *very* little money we make off ads doesn't even cover domain registration costs, let alone hosting or the many work hours put into the site.
In addition, the post shares a link to our 'screencleaner' which we feel most people would enjoy, though it is silly and somewhat pointless. The page that contains our screencleaner contains no links back to our site, or any ads either. It is simply a fun thing to share. Therefore, all who are saying the post was to make money... well... it simply wasn't. There's no money involved. There aren't even any puppies available. This post was purely for promoting awareness.
As for the breeding...
The text of the post and our website states that we are FIRST an informational source, and secondly that we breed. The purpose of suwanneesunsetshibas.com is not strictly to advertise or sell puppies. Our main goal is to provide information. IF someone should be interested in a puppy, they can contact us and we may or may not be able to accommodate them. If someone is interested, we then provide them with the information you find lacking about our breeding goals, championship lines, and health testing, as well as choosing a respectable breeder, showing, agility, etc. They can then make their own decisions. The majority of people who view our website simply aren't interested in that much in-depth information. The majority of people, honestly, are looking for information on heartgard, frontline, or eukanuba, of all things. For people who do contact us, we also investigate their reasoning for wanting a puppy, what their goals are, and how they have familiarized themselves with the breed.
We actually have *not* bred the pair repeatedly, ad nauseam. You are correct in noting that our wording needs to be modified. It should state that we OWN one active breeding pair... NOT that we only produce puppies constantly from that one pairing. Our female is only bred once/year, if that, and any other puppies sired by our male are not 'ours' to be listed, therein resulting in the poor wording. The fact that we have chosen to only *own* one active breeding pair does not make us bad breeders. It makes us better owners.
We chose our cream female very specifically based on her lines, as well as our male's. No, she is not up to AKC color standards. However, her lineage is excellent. She IS AKC registered. Her lineage, combined with that of our male's, we were hoping to achieve a Champion Red Sesame. We did not get the desired sesame result, but we have gotten two show-quality reds, one male and one female, who are doing well in the rings.
In addition, the JKC DOES accept cream shibas. I even discuss why the AKC does not permit the cream coloring on suwannee. Personally, I hope that some day the AKC will change their standards to include the cream. That being said, we are NOT producing cream pups, and all pups that have gone to new homes have gone with the understanding that they carry the recessive cream coloring and breeding partners (if applicable) would need to be very carefully considered.
Our health guarantee extends to one year because congenital defects can be diagnosed within the first year after purchase. We assume that after the first year, problems that have not already been diagnosed as congenital may have occurred due to environmental factors. We do not have our entire contract online. It goes on to say:
Buyer(s) must notify the Breeder immediately. Breeder reserves the right to have the dog re-examined by their veterinarian at their cost. If the dog is then found not to be in good health, Breeder will resume possession if this is agreeable to both parties with full refund.........
If you have more information on the length of time you believe congenital defects should be covered, I would be interested in hearing it.
We actually do NOT claim anywhere on the website to be "experts" on the breed, nor do we claim to be breeding to AKC standards. However, our pups do meet AKC standards, and are all registered accordingly.
Finally, I would just like to say that no, we're not the best breeders in the world. We never claimed to be. But we're also not some puppy mill or group out to just make money. We haven't done anything but *lose* money yet. We make the most educated decisions we can make with the help of our mentors. Our dogs, and our puppies, are well taken care of. All puppies are microchipped with us as secondary contacts. We have a 100% acceptance return policy where if, for any reason, someone is unable to keep the dog they have gotten from us, we will take it back. We also have spay/neuter clauses for non-show/non-breeding quality dogs. So I must say that no, we are not contributing to the overcrowding of shelters problem. We are not a "BYB". We are, and always will be, completely accountable for every dog we produce.
Not that I support the idea that *anyone* can breed, but at the same time, when did it become such an elitist group? New breeds are developed by making "mutts".... old breeds have been injured by inbreeding. The Shibas wouldn't even exist today without interbreeding with the Kishu... they would have been lost forever. Anyway. I guess what I'm saying is that we all do the best we can do. Not every dog is show quality, but that is how people get pets... which, when you get down to it, the main purpose of any dog is companionship. Yes, they work, they hunt, they achieve... but they are our companions. So I guess you can all call me what you want, I'm sure there will still be disagreements over whether my program is up to standards or not.
Anyway.. I appreciate everyone's 'concerns' and hope that the answers provided will be adequate.
PS
Dekka--I am immensely curious about what you mean by this statement on your own website: "We strongly believe in the preservation of this working breed and don't support any form of inclusion in the CKC or other Kennel club." I can't honestly say by looking at your website that you look to be any more "reputable" a breeder than I do by looking at mine. I however, would refrain from judging you based upon yours... and I hate JRT's.
Hi,
And thanks for the answers... and welcome (lol and I do mean that!) It takes someone who really is interested in dog to come back and stand up for what they do
As for me. JRTs have fought long and hard to stay out of Kennel clubs. The Parent Club and its subsidiaries have all worked hard to keep them a working dog.
We have a more rigorous registering system than Kennel Clubs. You can't just breed two registered JRTs together and get registered JRTs. They have to pass a health inspection and you take pics of the dogs and send them in. If the dog doesn't pass the health stuff or are too physically out of the standard they can't be registered.
Also in the JRT world the highest conformation awards go to dogs who actually work. Not play at working.. but actually work. The most prestigious thing your dog can achieve is a bronze medallion-which means they have been papered to three types of quarry in the field.
As for thinking I am no better than you. Well I would have to say that I DO title my dogs. So far you haven't said you get so much as a CGC on them. Mine are titled in obedience, agility, Rally, and we are working on more.
My health guarantee is a much more 'honest' one. Many issues cant' be tested for or even show up till after 2. This is fact.. not My Opinion. And why not extend it? If you are screening your puppy buyers well then you shouldn't' be selling to people who are not going to look after the pups. Even puppy mill dogs come with one year guarantees in the pet stores....
Are you involved in shiba rescue? (now my page isn't finished.. I am not sure if Boxer mentioned that I just started on it a couple of days ago) I am involved in the JRTRO.
Are you involved in the shiba breed club? How do you help protect and promote your breed?
You say you want to breed a champion... do you show? How are you going about doing that? (to see my current breed plan.. you have to go to the blog). What are your bitches faults and how are you trying to correct them? What makes your pups different from those in shelters?
Just FWI if you read the forum a bit and get to know us you will find I am fine with developing new breeds. I am not elitist at all that way. I have no problem with what people breed as long as they do it ethically. There are soooo many dogs dying for lack of homes. No breeder should produce what is already out there on death row. I am one of the strongest proponents of people being able to create new breeds for a purpose. I am fine with cross breeding for sport dogs.
There is always room for improvement with breeding endeavours.
I am glad Boxer got you to come back and discuss this with us.
And thanks for the answers... and welcome (lol and I do mean that!) It takes someone who really is interested in dog to come back and stand up for what they do
As for me. JRTs have fought long and hard to stay out of Kennel clubs. The Parent Club and its subsidiaries have all worked hard to keep them a working dog.
We have a more rigorous registering system than Kennel Clubs. You can't just breed two registered JRTs together and get registered JRTs. They have to pass a health inspection and you take pics of the dogs and send them in. If the dog doesn't pass the health stuff or are too physically out of the standard they can't be registered.
Also in the JRT world the highest conformation awards go to dogs who actually work. Not play at working.. but actually work. The most prestigious thing your dog can achieve is a bronze medallion-which means they have been papered to three types of quarry in the field.
As for thinking I am no better than you. Well I would have to say that I DO title my dogs. So far you haven't said you get so much as a CGC on them. Mine are titled in obedience, agility, Rally, and we are working on more.
My health guarantee is a much more 'honest' one. Many issues cant' be tested for or even show up till after 2. This is fact.. not My Opinion. And why not extend it? If you are screening your puppy buyers well then you shouldn't' be selling to people who are not going to look after the pups. Even puppy mill dogs come with one year guarantees in the pet stores....
Are you involved in shiba rescue? (now my page isn't finished.. I am not sure if Boxer mentioned that I just started on it a couple of days ago) I am involved in the JRTRO.
Are you involved in the shiba breed club? How do you help protect and promote your breed?
You say you want to breed a champion... do you show? How are you going about doing that? (to see my current breed plan.. you have to go to the blog). What are your bitches faults and how are you trying to correct them? What makes your pups different from those in shelters?
Just FWI if you read the forum a bit and get to know us you will find I am fine with developing new breeds. I am not elitist at all that way. I have no problem with what people breed as long as they do it ethically. There are soooo many dogs dying for lack of homes. No breeder should produce what is already out there on death row. I am one of the strongest proponents of people being able to create new breeds for a purpose. I am fine with cross breeding for sport dogs.
There is always room for improvement with breeding endeavours.
I am glad Boxer got you to come back and discuss this with us.
1st of all..
dekka is a better breeder than you will likely ever be. so please dont even go there.
2ndly..
your dogs dont show, your dogs dont work, you dont have titles, what are you breeding for? you only have one breeding pair, and the mother isnt even an acceptable color.
your breeding for cute pups, which im sorry is a BYB in my eyes.
I do give you props for taking the dogs/puppies back if the owner can no longer care for them but honestly, why do you need to be putting more puppies out there?
Shelters and rescues are overcrowded with oh so cute pups just like yours.
Pet store dogs come with 1 year health guarentees, fact is, they are crap. Most problems do not arise within the first year. a breeder who TRULY is confident in the pups they are producing has guarentees that are much longer. do you even health test your dogs?
dekka is a better breeder than you will likely ever be. so please dont even go there.
2ndly..
your dogs dont show, your dogs dont work, you dont have titles, what are you breeding for? you only have one breeding pair, and the mother isnt even an acceptable color.
your breeding for cute pups, which im sorry is a BYB in my eyes.
I do give you props for taking the dogs/puppies back if the owner can no longer care for them but honestly, why do you need to be putting more puppies out there?
Shelters and rescues are overcrowded with oh so cute pups just like yours.
Pet store dogs come with 1 year health guarentees, fact is, they are crap. Most problems do not arise within the first year. a breeder who TRULY is confident in the pups they are producing has guarentees that are much longer. do you even health test your dogs?
*sigh*
I am honestly almost as outraged by the utter lack of response since I replied as I was by the initial burning at the stake. What has occurred here is nothing short of intentional and malicious libel.
Perhaps I was not clear enough before, but I did not respond in the hopes of fielding more questions. I answered them all in as short a response as I could. Most of what I did provide has been seemingly basically ignored since I find myself reading Fransheka's and even Dekka's replies and saying to myself "what, I just answered that".
Yes, they're tested. Yes, we are active in showing. I am involved with the NSCA. No, I'm not active in rescue. Know why? Because there are all of two Shibas within my entire state that are currently within the rescue program... and that's the most I've ever seen. Usually there are none. I *do* refer people to my local rescue, and have links to Shiba rescues on my site....
I have already explained that if someone is interested in a puppy, we then provide them with the information you find lacking on our website about our breeding goals, championship lines, health testing, titles, as well as choosing a respectable breeder, showing, agility, etc. I'm not even going to waste my time explaining the rest of my practices. It is not worth it. As I've also already explained once, the main purpose of my site is for information on the breed, and that is the main reason people go there.
Dekka--
You are the reason I came and responded on this forum. While I appreciate Boxer, Dizzy, and LauraLeigh's responses, they are not the reason I was willing to discuss your issues. As I said, I did not make that post. I did not even know the post was being made, nor its content. I was only aware of the post when I suddenly started getting unusual traffic from the forum. I tracked back to see why, and was greeted by pages of people slamming me. Imagine my surprise. I appreciate everyone's enthusiasm for responsible breeding, but in this situation, you have me pegged all wrong.
You also mentioned that when you began posting on these forums, that you received the same 'welcome' of people questioning your breeding practices. Well... I went back through all your posts and found those 'welcomes' and the tone of their questioning was nothing like that of yours. They simply said to you that they noticed X, Y, and Z were missing from your site and that IF they were in the market, those items would make them leary of you... Then after you replied, they said that otherwise your site was nice. (To which, I might add, you replied: "As long as mine [my dogs] are within breed standard, and can do what they were bred to do, excel in some way (hunting, agility, obed etc) and have good temperments and health. I will breed them" Which, to me, is a whole other can of worms, but let's just not go there)
You, however, came out guns blasting, with nothing short of four pages of this person is a liar, this person claims this but it's not true, this person didn't even come back to check, this person is no better than a pet store, etc etc. Not constructive criticism, or even hey, I need more information before I verbally rape this person. AND half of what you said we were claiming, we NEVER did. If anything, all you can fault us on is not having all the information you would like from us publicly available. But no. You even went so far as to say : "WHen you google their kennel THIS thread will come up. Discussions of this kind can do good things in the way of education..." (In comes the malicious intent...) Well, I hope you're happy. The thread HAS made it to second behind my actual sites on google. Normally, I wouldn't care. However, I doubt most people are going to continue reading to the fifth page to see what I actually had to say about things. They'll get tired of listening to people, mostly you, being nasty by page three and leave the forum thinking that my kennel is the worst ever.
As to your website, I can see that you've only had it for three weeks. If it's that unfinished, however, you should neither have it live, nor, *especially*, be promoting it.
I don't think I even have anything left to say. In short, I am disappointed. I have never been "into" forums, blogs, etc. and I think I have just figured out why.
I am honestly almost as outraged by the utter lack of response since I replied as I was by the initial burning at the stake. What has occurred here is nothing short of intentional and malicious libel.
Perhaps I was not clear enough before, but I did not respond in the hopes of fielding more questions. I answered them all in as short a response as I could. Most of what I did provide has been seemingly basically ignored since I find myself reading Fransheka's and even Dekka's replies and saying to myself "what, I just answered that".
Yes, they're tested. Yes, we are active in showing. I am involved with the NSCA. No, I'm not active in rescue. Know why? Because there are all of two Shibas within my entire state that are currently within the rescue program... and that's the most I've ever seen. Usually there are none. I *do* refer people to my local rescue, and have links to Shiba rescues on my site....
I have already explained that if someone is interested in a puppy, we then provide them with the information you find lacking on our website about our breeding goals, championship lines, health testing, titles, as well as choosing a respectable breeder, showing, agility, etc. I'm not even going to waste my time explaining the rest of my practices. It is not worth it. As I've also already explained once, the main purpose of my site is for information on the breed, and that is the main reason people go there.
Dekka--
You are the reason I came and responded on this forum. While I appreciate Boxer, Dizzy, and LauraLeigh's responses, they are not the reason I was willing to discuss your issues. As I said, I did not make that post. I did not even know the post was being made, nor its content. I was only aware of the post when I suddenly started getting unusual traffic from the forum. I tracked back to see why, and was greeted by pages of people slamming me. Imagine my surprise. I appreciate everyone's enthusiasm for responsible breeding, but in this situation, you have me pegged all wrong.
You also mentioned that when you began posting on these forums, that you received the same 'welcome' of people questioning your breeding practices. Well... I went back through all your posts and found those 'welcomes' and the tone of their questioning was nothing like that of yours. They simply said to you that they noticed X, Y, and Z were missing from your site and that IF they were in the market, those items would make them leary of you... Then after you replied, they said that otherwise your site was nice. (To which, I might add, you replied: "As long as mine [my dogs] are within breed standard, and can do what they were bred to do, excel in some way (hunting, agility, obed etc) and have good temperments and health. I will breed them" Which, to me, is a whole other can of worms, but let's just not go there)
You, however, came out guns blasting, with nothing short of four pages of this person is a liar, this person claims this but it's not true, this person didn't even come back to check, this person is no better than a pet store, etc etc. Not constructive criticism, or even hey, I need more information before I verbally rape this person. AND half of what you said we were claiming, we NEVER did. If anything, all you can fault us on is not having all the information you would like from us publicly available. But no. You even went so far as to say : "WHen you google their kennel THIS thread will come up. Discussions of this kind can do good things in the way of education..." (In comes the malicious intent...) Well, I hope you're happy. The thread HAS made it to second behind my actual sites on google. Normally, I wouldn't care. However, I doubt most people are going to continue reading to the fifth page to see what I actually had to say about things. They'll get tired of listening to people, mostly you, being nasty by page three and leave the forum thinking that my kennel is the worst ever.
As to your website, I can see that you've only had it for three weeks. If it's that unfinished, however, you should neither have it live, nor, *especially*, be promoting it.
I don't think I even have anything left to say. In short, I am disappointed. I have never been "into" forums, blogs, etc. and I think I have just figured out why.
I'll pull out one of my favorite phrases... Here in the States, when I hear hoofbeats I think horses, not zebras.
We've seen a lot of horrible breeders come on here - so many that that's the assumption when we see so many red flags.
One breeding pair - red flag
No mention of showing on your site - red flag
No mention of health testing on your site - red flag
Apparently joining *just* to introduce your kennel - red flag
What did you expect? A warm and undeserved welcome, irregardless of what *all pointed* to shoddy breeding practices? If you want us to think you're a responsible breeder, you have to show us... otherwise, you'll be perceived as just another BYB who's out to make a buck.
What titles and/or working accomplishments do your dogs have? Where is their health testing? Exactly *how* are you involved in the breed club? The good breeders on here answer these questions because they're proud of their dogs' accomplishments and health, and are ready and willing to explain their breeding program. But we also get to know their dogs as family members and pets - which is something that your initial post didn't even allow - how can we get to know your dogs as dogs, if all we get is a website?
We've seen a lot of horrible breeders come on here - so many that that's the assumption when we see so many red flags.
One breeding pair - red flag
No mention of showing on your site - red flag
No mention of health testing on your site - red flag
Apparently joining *just* to introduce your kennel - red flag
What did you expect? A warm and undeserved welcome, irregardless of what *all pointed* to shoddy breeding practices? If you want us to think you're a responsible breeder, you have to show us... otherwise, you'll be perceived as just another BYB who's out to make a buck.
What titles and/or working accomplishments do your dogs have? Where is their health testing? Exactly *how* are you involved in the breed club? The good breeders on here answer these questions because they're proud of their dogs' accomplishments and health, and are ready and willing to explain their breeding program. But we also get to know their dogs as family members and pets - which is something that your initial post didn't even allow - how can we get to know your dogs as dogs, if all we get is a website?
For the last time....
I DID NOT MAKE THE POST.
I did not know the post was being made, nor its content. I found the post around 11 pm on the 11th after a spike in my web traffic, which I monitor, showed that I was getting hits from Chaz.
I THEN registered as a user to defend my site, which was under attack. I ONLY came on to defend. And briefly, at that.
I did not ever have any intention of joining this site. I have no intentions of remaining on this site. Forums are not my thing.
I am sorry that my site was forced upon you all and that it has cause such a stir. I had nothing to do with it.
People need to learn to read.
I DID NOT MAKE THE POST.
I did not know the post was being made, nor its content. I found the post around 11 pm on the 11th after a spike in my web traffic, which I monitor, showed that I was getting hits from Chaz.
I THEN registered as a user to defend my site, which was under attack. I ONLY came on to defend. And briefly, at that.
I did not ever have any intention of joining this site. I have no intentions of remaining on this site. Forums are not my thing.
I am sorry that my site was forced upon you all and that it has cause such a stir. I had nothing to do with it.
People need to learn to read.