what makes the perfect breeding dog

[Manchesters]

Originally Posted by showpug

Not easy to spot unless you have spent an abundance of time with that breed and studying the standard etc. Not all show dogs make good breeding dogs, but that is the purpose of showing dogs, to test breeding stock. I will start in the ring and aquire a championship conformation title and then put my dog through MANY health screens and then find a stud that is strong where she is weak and then and only then would I breed a litter.

You have it totally bassackward!!!!!! You do the testing FIRST! Why on earth spend money showing a dog to a title and THEN test????????? Unless of course you are filthy rich. A spayed champion ain't gonna do much to further the breed or a breeding program!!!!

[showpug]

Originally Posted by Manchesters

You have it totally bassackward!!!!!! You do the testing FIRST! Why on earth spend money showing a dog to a title and THEN test????????? Unless of course you are filthy rich. A spayed champion ain't gonna do much to further the breed or a breeding program!!!!

#1, I enjoy showing and not all dogs HAVE to be bred.
#2, I start showing my dogs at 6 months....this is too early to do OFA and some other types of testing etc. Many finish their championship before the OFA age. Oh ya, and maybe I am filthy rich LOL!!

[Manchesters]

Originally Posted by showpug

#1, I enjoy showing and not all dogs HAVE to be bred.
#2, I start showing my dogs at 6 months....this is too early to do OFA and some other types of testing etc. Many finish their championship before the OFA age. Oh ya, and maybe I am filthy rich LOL!!

Are you acquainted with Penn Hip testing? Check into it, I think you will find it very interesting. Also in your post you stated getting a Championship and then doing testing. Dogs that finish while still puppies are worthless until they have matured at about 2 years of age average! The only value of a dog genetically is in what they produce. Many people I know will pull their dogs from showing until they have been bred. There are too many cheap championships out there. The title has become almost a joke in recent time. The whole point should be to confirm that one has healthy dogs that will contribute to improving the breed. Very very often the top Brood B**itches have no titles in front of their names. They may have a bunch behind the name tho.

I just don't see the sense of someone going for a championship until they know their dog is tip top, health wise. It is not cheap these days to finish a dog. And depending on the points, some breeds ya have to be a Rockefeller!!!!!

[showpug]

Originally Posted by Manchesters

Are you acquainted with Penn Hip testing? Check into it, I think you will find it very interesting. Also in your post you stated getting a Championship and then doing testing. Dogs that finish while still puppies are worthless until they have matured at about 2 years of age average! The only value of a dog genetically is in what they produce. Many people I know will pull their dogs from showing until they have been bred. There are too many cheap championships out there. The title has become almost a joke in recent time. The whole point should be to confirm that one has healthy dogs that will contribute to improving the breed. Very very often the top Brood B**itches have no titles in front of their names. They may have a bunch behind the name tho.

I just don't see the sense of someone going for a championship until they know their dog is tip top, health wise. It is not cheap these days to finish a dog. And depending on the points, some breeds ya have to be a Rockefeller!!!!!

Manchesters....I looked into and read up on the Penn Hip testing. Sounds very interesting. I am going to see if there is a vet in my area that is familiar with it and trained properly. It seems more reliable and scientific then regular OFA....less room for human error and biased interpretation.

I also agree with the notion that there are too many "cheap" championships out there. Sometimes I am amazed at the dogs that carry these titles and shake my head in disbelief! It pains me to go to a specialty only to see dogs that paddle, have slipped hocks and roachy toplines!!

I also realize that some of the best brood B*itches are not champions and rather they are R.O.M's etc. I respect and acknowledge that, BUT I still plan on titleing a dog before I breed it. I guess if you believe that all health testing should be done before a dog steps foot in the ring then I guess it would be our responsibilty as a breeders to Penn Hip test all puppies before even selling them OR calling them show prospects. Not to mention the eyes and cardio certifications for pugs. Now talk about needing to be a Rockefeller!!! LOL!! As it stands, my dogs will all be tested before breeding, but not before entering the ring. If money is lost then it's my money and they are still just as good at warming my lap even if they can't be bred.

[juliefurry]

right on showpug!

[Manchesters]

Originally Posted by showpug

Manchesters....I looked into and read up on the Penn Hip testing. Sounds very interesting. I am going to see if there is a vet in my area that is familiar with it and trained properly. It seems more reliable and scientific then regular OFA....less room for human error and biased interpretation.

I also agree with the notion that there are too many "cheap" championships out there. Sometimes I am amazed at the dogs that carry these titles and shake my head in disbelief! It pains me to go to a specialty only to see dogs that paddle, have slipped hocks and roachy toplines!!

I also realize that some of the best brood B*itches are not champions and rather they are R.O.M's etc. I respect and acknowledge that, BUT I still plan on titleing a dog before I breed it. I guess if you believe that all health testing should be done before a dog steps foot in the ring then I guess it would be our responsibilty as a breeders to Penn Hip test all puppies before even selling them OR calling them show prospects. Not to mention the eyes and cardio certifications for pugs. Now talk about needing to be a Rockefeller!!! LOL!! As it stands, my dogs will all be tested before breeding, but not before entering the ring. If money is lost then it's my money and they are still just as good at warming my lap even if they can't be bred.

Once upon a time I was gungho into showing. But I never had the money to spare, and as an owner handler trying to show Dobes all I was doing was building the points for everyone else, lol.

Then parvo and other things came along that made it risky to take one's dog around other dogs. So my excitement waned. And then of course in 1995 I didn't have energy to do any traveling. In December of 1995 I had a few mini heart attacks, and ended up having open heart Jan of 1996. At the tender age of only 53!!!!!!

That kinda took the wind out of my sails energy wise. For a long time! We don't have a whole heck of a lot of shows around here anyway......well, maybe for those who don't mind driving a couple hundred miles each way, you could take in the New Orleans shows, and the lower Mississippi shows.

I had one B*tch who finished in something like 5 shows.....took 3 majors in one weekend, and a month later finished going BOB for 5 points over the #1 Toy Manchester!!!

My friend Terry (lady) has taken off with my dogs and their kids, and is pretty much doing it all in the show ring and breeding. What many folks do (those who have more patience than I) show in obedience while waiting for show prospects to mature. However the words "obedience" and Toy Manchester are somewhat oxymoronic (make some folk dig out their dictionaries!) There are few TITs with obedience titles.

But shucks, if you enjoy the socialization of going to shows, and having your dogs get even with you for everything you ever did to them, I sure can understand that.

I have gotten to the point that I don't even go to the local shows here in Pensacola. Just the thought exhausts me! Down here in the south tho we do run a greater risk of picking up all kinds of bothersome problems going to the shows......unexplained diarrhea and such. Not to mention the gosh awful heat in the summer and fall, up till November.

And I must say, I am pleased to meet a distant cousin of the Rockefeller family, rofl. I was a neighbor of theirs......we lived in North Tarrytown, and they were up the road in Pochantico Hills.

Have a super good night.

[Saje]

Ok, I've mostly just skimmed this thread but I'd like to add that knowing something about your dog's genetics doesn't hurt. Because you can have a 'perfect' job whose genes are just not that dominant. So, when you breed you need to consider which genes are dominant and which ones are weaker in both the partners so they compliment eachother. But my experience is more with horses. I've never bred dogs and don't plan to.

[showpug]

Originally Posted by Manchesters

Once upon a time I was gungho into showing. But I never had the money to spare, and as an owner handler trying to show Dobes all I was doing was building the points for everyone else, lol.

Then parvo and other things came along that made it risky to take one's dog around other dogs. So my excitement waned. And then of course in 1995 I didn't have energy to do any traveling. In December of 1995 I had a few mini heart attacks, and ended up having open heart Jan of 1996. At the tender age of only 53!!!!!!

That kinda took the wind out of my sails energy wise. For a long time! We don't have a whole heck of a lot of shows around here anyway......well, maybe for those who don't mind driving a couple hundred miles each way, you could take in the New Orleans shows, and the lower Mississippi shows.

I had one B*tch who finished in something like 5 shows.....took 3 majors in one weekend, and a month later finished going BOB for 5 points over the #1 Toy Manchester!!!

My friend Terry (lady) has taken off with my dogs and their kids, and is pretty much doing it all in the show ring and breeding. What many folks do (those who have more patience than I) show in obedience while waiting for show prospects to mature. However the words "obedience" and Toy Manchester are somewhat oxymoronic (make some folk dig out their dictionaries!) There are few TITs with obedience titles.

But shucks, if you enjoy the socialization of going to shows, and having your dogs get even with you for everything you ever did to them, I sure can understand that.

I have gotten to the point that I don't even go to the local shows here in Pensacola. Just the thought exhausts me! Down here in the south tho we do run a greater risk of picking up all kinds of bothersome problems going to the shows......unexplained diarrhea and such. Not to mention the gosh awful heat in the summer and fall, up till November.

And I must say, I am pleased to meet a distant cousin of the Rockefeller family, rofl. I was a neighbor of theirs......we lived in North Tarrytown, and they were up the road in Pochantico Hills.

Have a super good night.

Going to shows now or not, you made a difference in your breed and you made manchesters better. Sounds like your lines and efforts will be carried on through others now. The dogs have you to thank and the future handlers and breeders of manchesters have a great mentor in their midst. You are a smart lady with a ton to offer, I can tell that from your posts...even if you are a bit of a rebel rouser!! LOL! YOU have a good night

[Manchesters]

Originally Posted by showpug

Going to shows now or not, you made a difference in your breed and you made manchesters better. Sounds like your lines and efforts will be carried on through others now. The dogs have you to thank and the future handlers and breeders of manchesters have a great mentor in their midst. You are a smart lady with a ton to offer, I can tell that from your posts...even if you are a bit of a rebel rouser!! LOL! YOU have a good night

I think down here it is called being a rAbel rouser. Rabel being the lowlife rednecks that the northern people think all southerners are, rofl. I actually came from New York (Heaven forbid!)(Ooops, if Hell ain't used, is Heaven not allowed also?)

I really have only passed on the good started by those whose dogs went into producing my dogs. Mainly Phyllis Andreason of Busy Bee Manchesters, and of course Eva Puello of Golden Scoops fame. She is the grandmother and god mother of the whole breed. (Hope God is allowed??) All those of us around today can do is to take great care with what has been entrusted to us. It is a heavy responsibility.
And I finally chickened out going on 7 years ago. I gotta try to outlive the dogs I have, so they won't be abandoned when "the big one" hits me. But wouldn't ya know, I have extremely healthy and long lived dogs!!!!!!!

It would be nice to be able to just go out and get into the car to go to Walmart without having to crate all the dogs first!!!

Ah well......a good night to all.

[stirder]

two things qualify a dog for breeding. #1 is bloodlines (parents were titled in more than one field, so were grandparents, siblings etc). #2 is the dog in question has recieved titles in more than one field.
manchesters, admin has been alerted by more than one member to watch you so I would stop the intentional use of disrespectfull language and comments.