Please Help Me: for those feeding raw.

[midnightbirdgirl]

Originally Posted by FoxyWench

Lol, i figure i have 1 extreem (my smallest is 3lbs) why not have another lol. hey it could be worse i COULD be getting an english mastif lol.
the scary thing is, i know already, my 3lb male and 5lb female will STILL be the king and queen of the house, they already tell the 30lb cocker off when he gets too boisterous lol.

___

to adress the microwave issue:
personally i would never even partially thaw in the mircowave, its as safe to just thaw in the refigerator over night (for both meals of the day) or even on the counter top. (though we'll be a fridge thaw family thanks to our cats insistence that he take 2 bites out of ANYTHING left on the counter and the fact that a danes head can clear a counter within months lol)
but again, its amatter of personal preference, i just worry i would over cook and being im a college student i cant afford to just throw out meat lol.

You have do what works for you!! I would never suggest doing something someone was not completely comfortable with.
Back in my college days, I could not have afforded to waste the meat either.
MBG

[DanL]

Originally Posted by midnightbirdgirl

We do about 20% organ meats, Our Vet and other sources have suggested so. She does not have a loose stool, so I am assuming she is doing fine. We have been doing raw since she was 10 weeks old, she is now a year.
We do not do BARF, we do PREY-MODEL diet.
MBG

Can you give me links that support 20% organ meats? I've never heard that and would be interested in reading up on it. Most sites I've seen say 5% or so.

What else do you feed for prey model? Are you giving whole animals with fur/feathers etc?

[midnightbirdgirl]

The info I have on the offals, is from some literature my vet gave me and a couple of yahoo groups I belong to.
Sorry, but I don't know if I can post links to other groups here, If I am allowed I will. The literature says 10-20% and includes all offals not just kidney and liver, but intestines, brains lungs, spleen, tripe...you get the picture...It is just so the animal gets the amount that would be in the prey. Yes, we do sometimes do whole animal, but right now we do not live in an area where we can hunt freely, so whole animals are more difficult to come by. You do not have to actually have whole creatures to do PREY-MODEL you just have to give the amount of meat and bone in it's natural state (not ground) that would be found in nature. That does not mean that it has to be intact.
I hope that clears things up.
I feel when we feed our pets, we need to do what we feel best, and do as much research as possible to find our own comfort level. I know many who are happy with BARF diets.
But, from my personal research, it is not something I am comfortable with.
MBG

[DanL]

Do you have sources for all kinds of offal? Lungs, intestines, brains, all that? I'm only asking because if someone doesn't have access to that and sees 20% organ meat, that they are going to feed large amounts of very rich foods like liver or kidneys.

I don't do the BARF idea either, I don't feed any veggies, just a wide variety of food sources.

[midnightbirdgirl]

Originally Posted by DanL

Do you have sources for all kinds of offal? Lungs, intestines, brains, all that? I'm only asking because if someone doesn't have access to that and sees 20% organ meat, that they are going to feed large amounts of very rich foods like liver or kidneys.

I don't do the BARF idea either, I don't feed any veggies, just a wide variety of food sources.

Yes, there is a Mexican market near us, they butcher their own meat, and we can get our offals pretty reasonable there.

I would not give 20% kidney and liver, that would be too rich. Sorry, I was not clearer.
If I can't get the good stuff, I substitute with some chicken gizzards and hearts, but use a bit less, maybe a bit under 15%....

MBG

[Saje]

I am going to sticky this. There are a lot of great posts on here and it just goes to show how much the opinions on raw diets varies! There is no one right way to do it. Every dog is different and every owner is different. And every market is different....

Personally, I fed raw for about a year and am thinking about going back to it now with all the problems. I've been adding more and more raw to their diets. In my opinion it isn't always necessary (and definitely not balanced) to feed only chicken backs for a week. Mine have strong stomachs and took to raw food very quickly. Never had any stool problems.

Anyway, my diet looked like this:

Poultry (usually chicken) necks and backs plus ground meat (beef or pork). I'd buy other soft bird bones or ribs if they were on sale as well. Sometimes I'd get heart as the muscle meat.

They didn't get a whole lot of veggies. Usually just whatever was left over from my meals or I'd back them yams or something else yummy.

They got raw eggs several times a week and once or twice a week either liver or kidney (mikey hates offal!) I also think that 20 per cent is high but if it works for your dogs that's all that matters! And I'd save the egg shells for a 'healthy powder' recipe mordy shared with me. That I dont' have on hand but it consisted of ester c powder, calcium, kelp and a couple other things I can't think of.

They also got knuckle bones to gnaw on regularly.

[Melissa_W]

Thanks Saje.

[sam]

Originally Posted by FoxyWench

the backs should NEVER be mostly bone, backs SHOULD be about the same meat to bone ratio as quarters or at least the backs i have gotten in the past to look at have if anything a tad more muscle meat than quarters. the bones are also much smaller/softer.
notice how i also say backs or quarters, and that necks should only be 1-2 meals a week during that 2nd week period.
youll also notice that i do state organ meat should never be a meal in itself but instead added to another meaty meal.
Heart is also considered a Meat not an organ.

i personally dont like premade, but thats personal preference. its hard to get here and VERY expensive for what it is.

the guys who have been mentoring me and using this method of feeding have been doing so for years, most of which switched from the barf diet.
again, im a beginner and one thing i HAVE noticed with raw feeding is there are ALOT of different opinions. i got reamed on one site because i said i wasnt planning on feeding any other veggies than green tripe, because "thats not balanced" or another who told me feeding fresh meats wasnt safe and that i HAD to feed the premade, another who told me its 100% safe to mix kibble and raw in the same meal (of none compatible types)
so...

chicken backs and quarters tend to be THE staple of most raw feeders in terms of chicken.
chicken backs have more in trems of structural bone, but when compared to the leg bone in the rear quarters its about the same.

you also REALY dont have to worry too much about the bacteria in raw meat as the dogs natural stomach ph is so high itll kill most any bacteria that goes in there.

Wow, backs here have not a similar amount of muscle meat to necks and quite a it more fat. I guess people need to go by how their butcher makes the cuts. My raw food source doesn't do quarters unfortunately.

Yes there sure is a fair amount of difference in how people feed raw and everyone has to see what works for their dog and also decide how much risk they want to take. There are riskier and less risky ways to feed raw both in terms of bone and in terms of bacteria. Dogs certainly can get sick from bacterial overgrowth and if you have a dog who is a bit of a piggish gulper like one of mine, you have to be mindful of that when feeding bones. I tend to be somewhat cautious and I prefer to keep the bacterial load as low as possible.

As for premade raw, there is such a huge variety of what's out there so it always makes me wonder when people say they are anti premade raw. My local raw feeding supplier has premades that plain old chicken or turkey with the bine ground in or plain old 2 pound packages of backs or necks. I'm not sure what's not to like about that. It's extrememly well priced-- much bettter than if I was just buying for my two dogs. The only difference is I don't grind it myself and so it saves me buying a grinder, weighing and re-packaging the food. The nicest thing is they flash freeze which means less chance of bacterial growth and I can keep it in my fridge thawed longer than if I buy supermarket meat.

I finally have a vet who supports raw feeding and feeds raw herself- Obviously she grinds her bones because she suggested that I should hold onto the RMBs as my dogs ate them (for safety) I almost burst out laughing-- oh ya sure I'll hold onto a 4" chicken neck while my 50 lb dog eats it-- it's gone in two chomps!

[midnightbirdgirl]

Sam, I personally don't do pre-made, because it usually has extra ingredients, like fruits and veggies and is ground, we prefer to feed meat in its more natural state. Besides all that, it is expensive, I would rather spend the money on some nice lamb, veal or venison than a ground up version of the same, with added ingredients.
But again, it is a preference, you have to do what works for you and your dogs.
I am not against pre-made, it just is not for us.

MBG