High Protein and Puppies

[Dekka]

Just so you know Innova puppy is NOT high protein, its 28% by dry weight (so about a little over 1/2 that of raw). Its 454 kcal/cup and is only 4% higher than the adult. (and a lot lower than raw or evo) also its lower calories and lower carb than the adult food (which is 504 kcal/cup)

So I would bet there is something else going on. Correlation does not always equal causation (lol I am studying that right now for my mid term in critical thinking on Thurs.. way to go me for incorporating studying and chaz!! )

(but then again I am a little unsure of the idea that if you need to nutritionally deprive some of your breed to avoid health issues, then should that line of dogs be bred?)

[Dekka]

Just an addendum:

I should be getting ready for Tues chem marathons (lol 7 straight hours of chem lab/class) but instead I am looking at journal articles on excess protein and growth. Of course nothing so far in dogs. But found it in fish, people, cows, sheep, lots on rats etc.

Excess protein does NOT seem to cause growth problems, improper balance of amino acids, lack of calcium with excess protein do seem to be a problem. I did read (for humans) that very high levels of excess protein (and I wouldn't say a raw prey model is excess protein for a dog..) is only a problem is there is a genetic predisposition to the problem in the first place.

Anyway I have to be in lab in less than an hour.. so gotta go. If any one wants titles of some of the articles I found, let me know. Also if I find anything more (this is interesting) I will post it.

[sammgirl]

Ok, here is what my mentor said:

I am not sure why people feed raw instead of Innova. I like Innova, but it is very high in protein. Raw is great for starting a puppy on, I have done that in the past and really like it, but it is difficult to get the foods they need and you have to feed in the right proportions.

and then someone also said:

Hmmmmmm .... would I raise a corgi puppy on RAW -- yes. Would I feed EVO (or another similar type food) to a corgi puppy, no. I doubt if that sounds logical or rational, but I see RAW and the high protein foods differently.

In the wild, a puppy/cub/kit/or whatever would be eating the same thing as the adults do. Having seen a dam regurgitate food for her puppies when beginning to wean them on her time schedule, the RAW feeding makes sense to me. You would be better served talking with someone who does feed RAW for an explanation, than what my gut instinct tells me.

So...I have nothing of my own to contribute, because I'm just kind of learning all of this.

Dekka,

could you send me an article or two? I'd love to read them. Good luck on your Chem stuff. I've never had a head for that myself. :-)

[colshe]

As a mom of three dogs, my kids I also have the same worries. With so much information available in the internet about high protein and puppies with all it's pros and cons, as dog owners we should decide for them and it's our responsibility to give the right amount of nutrients for our dogs. In general,when it comes to puppies, a diet with a good balance of protein, fat, carbohydrates, vitamins and minerals, is all that is required. Be sure to avoid brands that push a high protein diet. Read the labels, do some research, use motherly instincts when choosing dog foods. Make sure you choose high quality dog foods next time you buy or better yet buy ingredients and cook or bake for your dogs. Just don't forget to stay inspired by reading articles related to dogs. There's so much to learn about dogs and why they do things they do. We can even understand the way they think. Here's a good site with inspiring articles about dogs' viewpoint.
Woof Gang Bakery Lakewood Ranch
homemade dog treats

[Brandyb]

Originally Posted by adojrts

I agree with what you stated, I too have spoken to nutritionists along with very knowledgable breeders that I know..........they all strongly recommend a high quality adult food instead of a puppy food past 2 -2 1/2 months of age.

Exactly what we did in the past, however left them on puppy food a little longer, probably until about 3-4 months. This has always been a concern in larger breeds, but now I'm wondering about the little guys as well.

Kerri I'd love the names of the articles so that I could take a look. Thanks a lot.

[Zoom]

Talk to Sabine over at Better Dog Care, Better Dog Nutrition - Creating Healthy Lifestyles for Canines: Main Page. She used to part of this board before she got too busy, but she's the lady who made The Dog Food Project - How does your Dog Food Brand compare?. She is a nutritionist and can give you the actual answers you need.

I don't recommend high protein kibbles to large breed puppies, the way it's forumulated does seem to have adverse affects on how they grow. RAW on the other hand, is fine, because it's not a concentrated source of multiple proteins mixed together. It's got enough water, bone for phosphorus, etc to balance out into an appropriate diet, so long as you're feeding proper amounts of things and not just tossing a boneless steak to them every single day.

[BabyDane]

We have successfully raised a Great Dane puppy on nothing but a raw diet. No problems whatsoever.

I recommend raw in any situation, no matter what. Even when feeding an 8 week old Dane puppy. Nothing better. Species appropriate.

As far as the protein goes, the protein in whole, fresh meats/organs is unchanged...ie-not processed in anyway, which means better, healthier. Why feed highly processed foods full of unhealthy fillers (even in high quality kibbles)?

[Gguevara]

Regarding Orijen, I've been looking into this since I plan to get a GSD puppy next summer. I'm going to email Orijen and see what they say about it but I'm pretty sure I'll end up picking it for my pup.

I think people tend to overfeed, as in feed what they were used to feeding with lower protein dog foods, not remembering that it's a higher protein food and that's what can lead to problems.
I've read people say they had no problems raising their large breed puppy on Orijen Puppy Large Breed and one guy said it actually promoted a slow growth with his puppies. Some recommended to keep your puppy a little on the lean side by making sure he gets a good amount of exercise for his age and remember to feed the right amounts.

[DanL]

Originally Posted by BabyDane

We have successfully raised a Great Dane puppy on nothing but a raw diet. No problems whatsoever.

I recommend raw in any situation, no matter what. Even when feeding an 8 week old Dane puppy. Nothing better. Species appropriate.

As far as the protein goes, the protein in whole, fresh meats/organs is unchanged...ie-not processed in anyway, which means better, healthier. Why feed highly processed foods full of unhealthy fillers (even in high quality kibbles)?

We fed our Dane on raw from the day she came home. she's almost 3 now and is in excellent condition. Raw let her grow nice and slow. She was barely 100lbs at a year old and is probably 130-140 now but is sleek, with a well defined tummy tuck and very nice muscle tone.

When we first got her:


Now:

[finder]

Protein is a very critical part of your dog’s diet. The majority of premium foods do a good job of providing adequate protein sources for the different life cycles of your pet. There are different protein needs for different species and life cycles so feed the correct one. Large breed dogs may have special protein needs but read the labels carefully and make sure you are getting what you pay for.