Choosing a breed to raise and train as service dogs

[lizzybeth727]

Originally Posted by corgipower

What is the reason for crossing labs with goldens?.

The goldens they were breeding were generally taller than the labs they were breeding. IME most bred service dog labs are quite short and stocky. Goldens tend to be more sensitive, so the lab/goldens actually have a better chance of having the right temperment.

Originally Posted by corgipower

How much does the dog's structure besides height make a difference? If someone is putting weight straight down on a dog, would a stockier dog - a wider frame - be better even if he's a little shorter? Or would that aspect not matter?.

I think the dog's overall body type is probably very important..... But again, there is no proof or evidence of any kind. There are too many unknowns, IMO, to ask a dog to have weight put on him day in and day out. After all, they weren't built to be weight bearing.

Originally Posted by corgipower

I wouldn't suggest Berners. I've never seen one that I would want to use as a SD. They can be great 95% of the time, but they have a tendency to spook and completely flip out on occasion, in some very unpredictable and odd ways.

Interesting.... I know of an organization that uses berners, they say they have the personality of a golden but the sturdier body that works better as wheelchair-pulling dogs.

Originally Posted by bubbatd

I've never seen a bad Golden or Lab service dog . I met such a neat Golden today .

I should HOPE that you don't see ANY bad service dogs, no matter what breed!!

Originally Posted by cricketsmygirl

I know this may sound out there and perhaps to some, crazy but how about an APBT? or an Amstaff or American Bulldog? I know people with APBT's who are service dogs and I know people who have other Pit Bull breeds as service dogs and have seen some pretty great things done with them.

This is a question my org gets a lot because pits are BY FAR the most common breed to see in the shelters. (I went to a shelter yesterday, probably 1/3-1/2 of the dogs there were pits it was terribly sad.) While their temperment definately does make them a good service dog (very people oriented, determined to do the job right, etc.), we don't use pits because of the stigma associated with them. A lot of people in public are scared of dogs anyway, and we feel like using a breed that more people are scared of anyway will just exacerbate the problem.

We also officially don't use rotties for the same reason, though one trainer I worked with LOVED rotties and got several that didn't look exactly like rotties if you didn't really know about dogs. They actually all (three) got released for resource guarding.

Gordon setter is a great suggestion, we have one gordon working now but I have never met her.

[mrose_s]

Originally Posted by Saeleofu

Another option I am looking at are Australian labradoodles (which are really a breed in Australia, not mixes like the "doodles" and such are here). They are expensive though, and would have to be imported (unless I move to Australia, which is actually a possibility).

They are not really a breed here yet, yes there are some breeders doing it the right way. They have set up an Association but there is still nothing to standard and they are still a way off actually being recognised as a breed and most pure-bred enthusiasts are still very anti-doodle. lol

On the Australia Labradoodle Association website they have put up a standard.

The Australian Labradoodle Association

This doesn't sit particularily well with me. Coat

A distinctive feature of this breed is that the coat is non-shedding and easily maintained.

My understanding is even poodles shed, its just because the hair gets caught in the wool like texture of their coat so it isn't dropped from the dog so much. So saying this is a "non-shedding breed" makes no sense, ALL dogs shed, some more than others.

I think the Labradoodle has potential, but we must remember thats its original purpose was to be bred as a hypo-allergenic guide dog, but as far as I know, the project was abandoned around 1996 because there was such a low success rate.
This is an interesting page (not too long)
http://www.blythmoor.com/labradoodle.pdf

I have seen Standard Poodles as guide dogs though, they are incredibly intelligent and their size is handy.

[Laurelin]

The service dog organization here uses mainly labradoodles and I've been pretty impressed with them overall. I'm certainly no service dog expert but I definitely know there are labradoodles doing the job out there.

One plus I've noticed about the doodles versus the labs and poodles at least for you is they seem to be bigger than both parent breeds. I'm not sure HOW exactly., but it's not uncommon to see a doodle that is just massive. Anyone know why that happens?

[lizzybeth727]

Laur, can you PM me the organization you're talking about??

[Momof2Pups]

I saw a labradoodle service dog a few weeks ago (her owner said she was imported from Australia) and she was beautifully behaved. I've never thought much of labradoodle breeding at all, TBH, and was impressed in spite of myself of the great temperament.

Unfortunately I also ran into a woman with a golden retriever as her service dog and it was one of the worst behaved dogs I've ever seen in public. It was barking and lunging, and when the owner grabbed it by the collar it snapped at her. As she was escorted out of the building (because of her dog's behavior- her service dog, for goodness' sake!) she asked me what I was doing with a border collie as a service dog, and told me one day she'll turn on me. WTF? My service dog was perfectly behaved even as she got pounced on by Cujo, and she's the crazy one? Whatever. It's just really depressing to see a service dog behave like that. It gives a bad name to people like us who need our service dogs and actually TRAIN them.

A Gordon is a great idea. Not the first breed I thought of because they're not as common as goldens or labs, but a great breed with great temperaments. Just remember, whatever you decide, don't forget about the actual individual dog.

[Laurelin]

Originally Posted by lizzybeth727

Laur, can you PM me the organization you're talking about??

Sure thing!

[lizzybeth727]

Originally Posted by Momof2Pups

Unfortunately I also ran into a woman with a golden retriever as her service dog and it was one of the worst behaved dogs I've ever seen in public. It was barking and lunging, and when the owner grabbed it by the collar it snapped at her.

How horrible!

FYI - to ANYONE reading this - if you see a service dog misbehaving in public, believe me, the dog's trainers WANT TO KNOW. Please, do what you can to figure out where the dog came from - compliment their breeding, say that you need a dog too, whatever - and contact that organization. You don't have to have the dog's or person's name, just a description will be good enough.

Also, if you see a dog behaving well, you can call us about that too.

We tell our recipients that we have spies everywhere, so they'd better make sure their dogs are on their best behavior in public! Every once in a while we get "strangers" calling to comment on our dogs' behaviors, and you'd better believe those recipients get the message too!

Of course often when dogs are misbehaving in public, they are owner-trained... which is part of why I think one day in the future there are going to be more strict certifications or something required for service dogs in public.

[Laurelin]

I ran into a really poorly behaved labradoodle service dog once. (It was not through the org here) It was awful, but I wasn't sure what to do about it. Thanks for the heads up though, now I have a better idea what to do if I come into that situation again.

[Saeleofu]

Yes, APBTs are too short. I love them, they're great dogs, but they're not what I'm looking for.

If you have lots of pit-type dogs in shelters, consider them lucky - here they will euthanize a pit that even comes close to failing one part of a temperament test, but will adopt out a chihuahua that complete fails the entire test >.< Granted in general our BSL isn't as bad as it is in some places, but is has become considerably worse in the past few months.

The only reason I wouldn't really want to have poodle/lab mixes (as opposed to Labradoodles) is that if I were to breed them myself, I'd have to have labs and poodles, and I don't want to do that. I'd rather just stick with one breed.

If you see a poorly behaved SD, if it's from a program definitely report it to the program. If I remember correctly you can also report it to the DOJ, but don't quote me on that, I'd have to look it up again. Usually, though, poorly behaved SD are one of the following:
1. "hugger" dogs (aka untrained ESAs that are being dragged around)
2. fakers - people who aren't really disabled but want to drag their pet everywhere
3. owner trained

Now, not all OT dogs are bad. Some of the best SDs I've hearb about have been owner trained, but their owners are professional dogs trainers in their own right. The ones that cause problems are those that are trained without the help of an actual trainer (and the owner has no idea what they're doing to begin with) and those that refuse to wash out their dog when it's clear it shouldn't be a SD. I encourage anyone who sees a poorly behaved SD or a faker to report it. Remember that for every poorly behaved dog, it makes it harder for legitimate teams to get access.

[Momof2Pups]

I do want to step in and say that I totally agree that unfortunately, many owner-trained service dogs are not very well-behaved. I also wanted to say that my SD is owner-trained for a legitimate disability, that she alerts but also performs several other trained tasks, that I trained her to the public access guidelines, and that she's very well behaved. I'm quite young, am not a professional, but have worked with many, many dogs (mainly through volunteer work at the local humane society and with animal control/pound, trying to help the behavior issues of the dogs who might be PTS because of them), and have consulted with people who also successfully trained their own service dogs.