Choosing a breed to raise and train as service dogs

[Saeleofu]

I didn't mean to say that the lab/poodle mixes weren't successful too, as they have been. I know a few people with poodle mixes as SDs.

The problem you might find with collies, though, is their size - this dog was on the small size to be a service dog, and there was no way she'd ever work as a balance/support dog. I know there's a lot of variation in size for collies, though, and I have met some that would be tall enough (though IMO they were extremely out of standard).

That's a potential problem with poodles, too. We had a standard come in to the clinic the other day, and though she did meet the height requirement to be a standard poodle, it would still be too short/small for what I envision theses service dogs doing.

As far as those harnesses above - they do raise the height of the dog, but you have to be careful - they are made for leaning on the dog, and the longer the handle is, the more strain it puts on the dog. They are useful for big dogs that just aren't quite tall enough, but to extend the height of a dog that's way too short would be inappropriate. Ten inches isn't very long, and so in that case it probably works very well. Most of the balance issues with autism tend to not be ones where you need to actually lean on the dog, but something where a bridge handle to keep forward movement going (similar to a guide harness) would be helpful. Honestly there would be more modified guide tasks than actual balance tasks, but I know I would find balance work to be useful.

I do plan to work with a lot of programs in the next 3 years or so while I'm at school, and then after that I wouldn't jump into my own program straight away, but ideally work with another program for a while to learn the real ins and outs of having a school. The last thing I would want to do is go into something like this unprepared.

Thanks for everyone's input so far

[Saeleofu]

do they need more lateral balance - left and right - or more balance forward and backward;

That is exactly what I was trying to get at. It's not leaning on the dog constantly, but more the dog pulling to some degree to help start, stop, change direction, keep from tipping over, etc, and then bracing for falls sometimes.

[Romy]

If I was you I'd also look at gordon setters. The one gordon I know personally is one of the only non-service dogs I'm acquainted with that would have made a very good service dog. He just has a perfect temperament, with perfect sweetness, and love, and focus. He's smart, and wants very badly to please. He's also large and strong. He's extremely stable and balanced. He's always around lots of people and different kinds of animals, with zero aggression, fear or prey drive. He makes me think of a very intelligent ideal golden retriever. I have no idea how typical that temperament is for the breed, but you may want to meet some from different lines and see if what they are producing fits the standards for a service animal.

Their standard says the upper height limit is 27 inches, which is a decent height. You can find dogs over and under sized, so might be able to find one larger. I'm 5'9" and my hip is 30" off the ground, my borzoi is 30" at the shoulder.

I guess others to go out and meet/research might be bernese mt. dogs, leonbergers, and newfoundlands. Newfs might be a bit large and drooly, not too sure. Leos and berners in my experience tend to be pretty laid back and well adjusted, without much prey drive. There's a lady I know who is training a St. Bernard to be an autism dog, it will be interesting to see how that works out. I'd be concerned about the lifespan, but I guess time will tell.

[Saeleofu]

Oh, I haven't thought of Gordons! See, you guys have some good ideas

I know a couple newfies that are working service dogs, but I think they're probably too big for the average person to handle as far as making it "invisible" in public. Same with great danes and St. bernards, plus adding in the potential lifespan issue makes them much lower on my list.

If I choose a dog that has variable height, I may have to deliberately breed them to be larger than the breed standards. They wouldn't likely be competing in conformation anyway, since pretty much any dog I would place would be spayed/neutered prior to placement (obviously the breeding dogs would have to be kept intact, but they also wouldn't likely be working service dogs, either, and if there was one that was it would be a male and working for me)

[cricketsmygirl]

I know this may sound out there and perhaps to some, crazy but how about an APBT? or an Amstaff or American Bulldog? I know people with APBT's who are service dogs and I know people who have other Pit Bull breeds as service dogs and have seen some pretty great things done with them.

[Zoom]

Pitties make good service dogs, but they're too small for what the OP is going to use them for.

[colliewog]

Originally Posted by Saeleofu

True Australian labradoodles have been successful service dogs. No, they are not as common as labs and goldens, but they are out there. Romy is right - they were originally bred to be hypoallergenic for a person in Hawaii who needed a guide dog but her husband was severely allergic to dogs. Poodles were hypoallergenic for him, but there were problems finding a poodle with a suitable temperament and such.

As far as tasks for autistics go, I am intimately acquainted with what we need. Of course it will vary from person to person, but in general, between myself and about 5 other people on the spectrum that have/need/want SDs, most of our tasks are the same.

I hadn't thought of smooth collies, but that is an option too. I will look more into them.

I personally love Aussies, my concern with them would be height, but they could potentially work too.

Borzois could be an option too. I have worked with a few briefly, and they seemed like wonderful dogs. I do happen to know a good breeder around here too.

I first said Smooths because they are used as guide dogs where a rough would be too much to maintain for a blind person, but for a sighted, able-bodied person, a rough wouldn't be an issue. In the US, they are varieties of the same breed, not individual breeds ...

[bubbatd]

I've never seen a bad Golden or Lab service dog . I met such a neat Golden today . I was at a " Walk " and a man and Golden was walking by . Seems that she was at a service dog convention and not to overwhelm her, a friend volunteered to walk her every few hours . He said that he removes her vest so she can be a " normal dog " on a walk . The thing that gt me was that she had a huge scar from the top of her head down her nose . Seems like she had a huge brain tumor that was removed and then trained as a service dog . I was almost in tears !

[corgipower]

Originally Posted by lizzybeth727

I also know of several organizations that use lab/golden crosses to get the large balance dogs.

What is the reason for crossing labs with goldens?

Originally Posted by lizzybeth727

The problem is there's no studies done at all to determine the physical stress put on the dog when he's wearing a tall harness; it's all advanced physics, I think! It also depends on what the person needs... do they put a lot of weight straight down on the dog when they walk, like a cane; do they need more lateral balance - left and right - or more balance forward and backward; do they put pressure on the dog on every step, or is it only occasionally; etc.

How much does the dog's structure besides height make a difference? If someone is putting weight straight down on a dog, would a stockier dog - a wider frame - be better even if he's a little shorter? Or would that aspect not matter?

Originally Posted by Romy

I guess others to go out and meet/research might be bernese mt. dogs, leonbergers, and newfoundlands. Newfs might be a bit large and drooly, not too sure. Leos and berners in my experience tend to be pretty laid back and well adjusted, without much prey drive. There's a lady I know who is training a St. Bernard to be an autism dog, it will be interesting to see how that works out. I'd be concerned about the lifespan, but I guess time will tell.

I wouldn't suggest Berners. I've never seen one that I would want to use as a SD. They can be great 95% of the time, but they have a tendency to spook and completely flip out on occasion, in some very unpredictable and odd ways.

[Romy]

Originally Posted by corgipower

I wouldn't suggest Berners. I've never seen one that I would want to use as a SD. They can be great 95% of the time, but they have a tendency to spook and completely flip out on occasion, in some very unpredictable and odd ways.

That's good to know. I've never lived with one, so these are the kinds of things you'd have to learn by spending time with them.

Grammy, my training with Strider was nearly totally destroyed when he was 1 year old, when a lab service dog assisting a woman in a wheelchair saw him at the store, flipped out and ripped the leash from her hand and charged at us ready to rip him a new one. I had to body block her to keep him from being bitten. Luckily she tried to get around me instead of biting her way through, we were in a narrow aisle, and the staff at the store (it was a feedstore/grooming parlor) were very dog savvy and got her away before anyone was hurt. I still regret not noting the patch on her vest, it looked like a SD org patch. Strider was reactive for months afterward and it took a ton of work to desensitize him to dogs on leash again. He's fine now thank goodness.