Puppies and RAW

[sammgirl]

Ok, so you come on this thread and insult the kind of dog I like and then start harping on raw food? Really?
That's right.

[Dekka]

Yes they are JRTs (cutest puppehs evar .. but I could be biased) Check out the Dekklet threads...

I do switch up the protein sources. They get chicken, beef and turkey often, as well as elk, pork and bison fairly regularly and then occasionally venison, rabbit, moose etc.

Originally Posted by freedomwolf

wow. I knew a samoyed once that my mom and dad had when they were married a few years before they had me. Once they had me though, the dog did a complete turn a round and hated kids. One time (when i was about 2 or 3) I went near it I guess it was eating, all I remember though is that I went near him and he bit me in the face. My mom got rid of him after that and gave them to a family that had older children.

Question on the raw meat. Wouldn't that make a dog angry and aggressive? I heard that once a dog got a taste of blood, they were to be put down because you never knew what that dog would do after they have tasted it.

Many sammies are fantastic dogs... its just like any other breed. I have met more human aggressive labs than anything else, but I wouldn't assume that is the norm for the breed. I have JRTs and whippets, both which have some strong steriotypes-JRTs are hyper, nasty out of control dogs and whippets are shy, nervous, flighty, and shakey. NONE of those things are true for well bred dogs of those breeds.

Also ANY undersocialized dog can have resource guarding issues even well bred ones. It is a fairly easy fix with a good trainer or behaviouralist unless the dog actually has a 'problem'

As to the raw. No that is completely untrue . Otherwise many of the top sport dogs would be vicious, all dogs back before the 40's would have been nasty too. Its very common for top breeders, trainers, conscientious pet owners to feed raw.

Does this look like a child eating JRT to you? My dogs are 'booth' dogs for the breed/rescue booths at large events like the Royal Winter Fair and the Toronto Sportsman show.





if raw mad dogs vicious and bad.. I wouldn't be able to do this..

[FoxyWench]

freedom, while the raw question was valid, the comments about the sammies were not, ive noticed this happens on most threads you comment on...
please, your opinion is a wonderfull thing to have, but try not to stray off topic just to get it in there...

and the whole agression linked to "the taste of blood" are COMPLETE myths, put out there by a combination of the kibble companies and paranois people...
that would be the eqivalent of saying someone who likes their meat rare will beocme mean and agressive because of the taste of blood...

a raw fed dog may be very enthusiastic about their meals...but beyond that, any agression a dog shows is absolutly based on socilization, training and breeding...(and occasionally illness)

[whackichic]

I have a 15 week old puppy that I have had for 3 weeks. He was fed Pedigree and table scraps which included bbq potato chips & spilt beer. His transition was cold turkey. Could raw be any worse on his digestion than the chips? He had mushy poo but not runny poo and now he's fine. He is even eating xkalibur from greentripe.com. I'm slowly adding plain old green tripe so he can have that for 1 of his 3 meals.
There was a dead rat outside and all they did was sniff it. The dogs weren't ravenous for this furry creature at all. There was a dead deer on the side of the road. My dog sniffed it and that's all. (Not the puppy, the older raw fed dogs). I was also told recently that it's cruel to have my dogs in a crate and it's better to let a dog freak out in a garage on July 4th to where it ripped his face open on a motorcycle. All these myths. My puppy is fed his raw food in his crate and loving it.

[SisMorphine]

Just a note on balancing over time: yes, this is one of the perks of raw is balance over time. I can balance my dogs meals over the week and it's fine. BUT with puppies, because they are growing so fast, their balance over time is really only over a couple of meals, NOT a week like an adult dog. You don't want to rob their bodies of nutrition that they need during their daily growth spurts.

I went to a structure seminar and the woman putting it on was VERY against feeding a raw diet to puppies, showing us pictures of well bred dogs with structural issues because they were fed raw for their first 6 months-1 year. IMHO those structural problems were because people were feeding raw wrong, ie: the pups were missing something. Now whether that was missing something COMPLETELY (like maybe these owners didn't have enough organ meat or something) or because they didn't balance the diet quickly enough within the pups since they were used to feeding adult dogs, no one but them can say. But that is just my warning about balancing over time with pups, and why I am so nervous about feeding home made to the puppies and instead choose to go with a pre-made since, like I said, I don't have the time to sit down and calculate stuff. Betty at Bravo has already done it for me

[sammgirl]

Thanks for the helpful replies, everyone.

I understand why you would feed the pre-packaged, SisMorphine. I think you have an extremely valid point regarding puppies and raw feeding and I'm grateful that you posted your warning.

Do you think that if I fed kibble for one meal a day, but fed the rest RAW, that it would be possible to better balance the puppy's diet in that manner? I would probably feed something like Fromm's, because that's what my mom's dogs grew up on and I trust that brand implicitly. She had GREAT results from Fromm's.

I think if there was a certain amount of pumpkin in the diet that it would help things regarding digestion.

I've heard of other people mixing raw and kibble diets and having good success, but part of me was like, "Why would you feed a high percentage of kibble to your dog and then also feed RAW?" I think that question has been answered in my own thought process over this thread.

I know puppies need many nutrients, which I think are best in their raw form. However, like you SisMorphine, I'm not a nutritionist. I don't want to hurt the puppy even while my best intentions are to feed him so that he lives a long and healthy life and grows well.

I would like to get a book that is specifically regarding feeding prey model raw and puppies. Can anyone recommend that?

[sammgirl]

Oh...here's a fun tidbit...

I found out today that my breeder feeds Eukenuba to the puppies.

[ihartgonzo]

Originally Posted by freedomwolf

Question on the raw meat. Wouldn't that make a dog angry and aggressive? I heard that once a dog got a taste of blood, they were to be put down because you never knew what that dog would do after they have tasted it.

????
What did dogs eat before commercial kibbles were created, 50 years ago? Were ALL dogs blood-thirsty and vicious back then? What is the difference between feeding a dog raw and cooked meat and their becoming mean dogs - besides the fact that cooking meat robs it of many natural nutrients? Making that assumption is just as ignorant as making the assumption that all Samoyed's are biters because of the isolated experience with your childhood dog.

As far as a puppy going crippled because their meals aren't balanced every day... I do not buy that. I would be very careful about feeding raw (or anything) to a giant breed or a breed already pre-disposed to serious growth problems (namely breeds who are not of healthy structure to begin with such as Bulldogs). A wolf puppy or the puppy of wild dogs is not going to get precisely 80% meat, 10% organs and 10% bone each and every day; but they will get about that over a span of several meals. One boney meal and one meaty meal here and there is not going to rob a puppy of nutrients. If they are being fed proper amounts of raw, a puppy's growth should be very gradual and slow, and growth spurts on a daily basis should not be happening.

[sammgirl]

Thanks for the post Ihartgonzo. I'm definitely going to do some very heavy research before I make any decisions. Thanks for saying that all sams aren't bad dogs. In fact, the sams I've met (and no, not all of them were show dogs or even well bred) were very lovable and happy dogs. It's one of the reasons I want one so badly.

I do think that SisMorphine did have some valid points, and just like feeding anything else, you have to be very aware of what you're doing.

I'm going get some RAW books and dog nutrition books and get a better understanding of exactly what it is I'm going to be doing.

[MafiaPrincess]

oops.. sorry didn't see Maf was signed in <iz my puter!>