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  #21  
Old 05-26-2009, 09:20 AM
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Originally Posted by release the hounds View Post
i'm a big fan of blasting hooters, problem is I don't have the accessories to do that technique correctly and nobody else around me is willing to do it. I try to convince them of the well trained dogs they will have, as evident by the "oohhh's" and "ahhhh's" they'll get while on the training field. But so far i'm having trouble convincing others to try that method. Maybe I'll write a book and get a tv show, i wonder who will pick that up?
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  #22  
Old 05-26-2009, 09:21 AM
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Darren Naish: Tetrapod Zoology: Controversial origins of the domestic dog

This and other theories of domestic dogs' origins suggest strongly that they are not true pack animals at all. Social yes, pack or hierarchial animals, no.
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  #23  
Old 05-26-2009, 09:22 AM
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Thanks Dober. If I can reach just one, then the ramifications for their future dogs would be great!
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  #24  
Old 05-26-2009, 09:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Fransheska101 View Post
I respect other people and their training methods. would i ever use cesar milans philosophies on kenya? hell no.

but i respect other peoples rights to use it on their dogs. Yes, i do tell them my point of view but no im not going to say their way is "wrong" and my way is "right".
my way is "right" for MY DOG but might not be for everyones.

This is of course with the exception of methods that really do cause brutal physical harm (beating dogs, abuse). Ive never seen ceasar beat a dog or abuse one and I do watch the show fairly often. my tivo often records it because it knows I like dog shows.

As long as YOUR dog is healthy, happy its w/e works for you.

Posting the article on the cesar forum i think was a bit much. if someone came over here and did that about nilif there would be uproar.their responses have been polite and civil, which is surprising to see on a forum. maybe it did educate a select few, but for most on that forum, cesars way has worked for them and their dogs already.. so why would they change? definetly over an article posted rather impolitely on their forum with the title "Read this and learn, abuse is not needed!!!!". that is making a blanket statement. most of those people probably dont abuse their dogs, its a dog forum full of dog lovers, just like this one.

this is just my 2 cents of course. im just not a "my way or the highway" kind of person.

Fransheska, what you see on Cesar's show and what behaviorists and many of us here on this forum see is diametrically opposed. I know dogs and their body language and behavior and I see learned helplessness and extreme stress signals on a great deal of dogs he works with. So, to me, his methods are wrong and in many instances abusive. I don't go along with the politically "correct" view point that "there is no wrong answer. Not all dogs need the same 'method', (when a different method includes mistreatment) to each his own." No, I absolutely can not condone most of the "methods" Cesar Milan uses.
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  #25  
Old 05-26-2009, 09:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Doberluv View Post
Fransheska, what you see on Cesar's show and what behaviorists and many of us here on this forum see is diametrically opposed. I know dogs and their body language and behavior and I see learned helplessness and extreme stress signals on a great deal of dogs he works with. So, to me, his methods are wrong and in many instances abusive. I don't go along with the politically "correct" view point that "there is no wrong answer. Not all dogs need the same 'method', (when a different method includes mistreatment) to each his own." No, I absolutely can not condone most of the "methods" Cesar Milan uses.
Im not saying you guys dont have the right to say your opinion, obviously, you do. I just think you guys could've gotten through to a lot more people if you didn't put them on the defensive and making yourself out to be a know it all as well as make them feel like you were calling them all dog abusers.. which is kind of what the title " READ THIS AND LEARN! ABUSE IS NOT NEEDED!" does. maybe a title like "just an article i found, from a different point of view" or something like that would change more people. You can catch more flies with honey than vinegar

Im NOT A FAN of his techniques . I like some of the thing he does, I like daddy showing a nice side of pitbulls, and I like some other things but i WOULD NEVER use his methods on my dog or recomend his methods to anyone else.

Im not trying to come of to be ceasars #1 fan. i just think getting people on the defensive, calling them dog abusers, and trying to "educate" them in such a harsh way is not going to get through to anyone.
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  #26  
Old 05-26-2009, 09:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Fransheska101 View Post
i just think getting people on the defensive, calling them dog abusers, and trying to "educate" them in such a harsh way is not going to get through to anyone.
I agree with that. And it is trolling.
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  #27  
Old 05-26-2009, 09:50 AM
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What is trolling? I don't get it.

Some people have strong opinions about the welfare of dogs. And when they see a dog drooling and cowering, his ears back, the whites of his eyes showing, his tail tucked between crouching back legs as his air supply is being cut off as Cesar forcefully drags while he pulls the dog by a choke chain across a slippery floor, lifting a lot of the dogs weight up off the floor by the choker...well some people have a hard time handing out the honey. It makes some of us very angry indeed. Anyone who emulates these kinds of tactics on dogs IS abusive and I'm not about to sugar coat it. It is what it is. I can't be a mamby pamby who won't stand up against what I know is WRONG. Yeah, they might get put on the defensive, but they do anyway. I've gone the gentler approach and so have a LOT of people. You know why they go on the defensive? I'll leave my theories as to the answer in the air.
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  #28  
Old 05-26-2009, 10:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Doberluv View Post
What is trolling? I don't get it.

Some people have strong opinions about the welfare of dogs. And when they see a dog drooling and cowering, his ears back, the whites of his eyes showing, his tail tucked between crouching back legs as his air supply is being cut off as Cesar forcefully drags while he pulls the dog by a choke chain across a slippery floor, lifting a lot of the dogs weight up off the floor by the choker...well some people have a hard time handing out the honey. It makes some of us very angry indeed. Anyone who emulates these kinds of tactics on dogs IS abusive and I'm not about to sugar coat it. It is what it is. I can't be a mamby pamby who won't stand up against what I know is WRONG. Yeah, they might get put on the defensive, but they do anyway. I've gone the gentler approach and so have a LOT of people. You know why they go on the defensive? I'll leave my theories as to the answer in the air.
That. Trolling would be calling them idiots, being combative and insulting. I am remaining neutral and gentle, just hoping to educate SOMEONE. Even if it is just a lurker, that abuse is NOT on.
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  #29  
Old 05-26-2009, 11:24 AM
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Ok. im not saying what your saying ISNT RIGHT. im saying your not going to get through to anyone with a title like "READ THIS AND LEARN! ABUSE IS NOT NEEDED" that says 2 things.. 1. you are stupid, come read and learn and 2. you are abusing your dog.
those are not things that dog lovers wanna hear and it sure as hell isnt going to make them more open minded about anything. it puts them on the defensive.

I just think a thread title change is in order if you want to get to anyone
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  #30  
Old 05-27-2009, 07:04 AM
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I don't see it in that way at all. I didn't tell anyone that they are abusing their dogs.
Meh, maybe it is just that people see things in a different way.
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