Using “dominance” to explain dog behaviour is old hat

[adojrts]

Anyone have CM or BP email?? They could use some enlightening

Excellent article.

[Doberluv]

Trouble is....they still won't get it. They're so dead set on sticking to their story and not losing face, that even if they did catch a spark of understanding, it wouldn't matter. Their pride matters more than what is good, logical and workable for dogs as well as for dog/human relationships. They don't listen to anyone who trains dogs, has wonderfully behaved and happy dogs, full of spark if they train without compulsion, dominance, pack theory and all the rest of that crap. They just keep denying what is right in front of them if they'd get their heads out of their ______s. (sand) LOL.

[puppydog]

Originally Posted by adojrts

Anyone have CM or BP email?? They could use some enlightening

Excellent article.

Done, with more far reaching audience.

Cesar Millan's Dog Community and Forums

[Doberluv]

Heh, heh...you're brave. Have they come after you with alpha rolls or choke chains yet?

[Doberluv]

Nope...they don't get it....those people. I had some pictures of Cesar telling a dog to go lie down on his dog bed in his usual domineering demeanor and that dog is flat out cowering. Now I don't know what link that was in. These people don't seem to recognize stress signals or most body language in dogs. Don't you just love how they poo poo any and all experts with advanced degrees in behavior? Oh yeah, these scientists know nothing. Good God!

Dog Whisperer, Dog Psychology and Cesar Millan

'Leaders' in all animals control assets more often than they control individuals through the use of force. As stated by Myrna Milani, DVM, author and veterinary ethologist:

"...the mark of a true leader is the ability to control without force. And, in fact, wild animals who rely on brute force to maintain their status typically get eliminated from the gene pool because this approach requires so much energy."

Here's something else you can post if you want:

http://www.4pawsu.com/avsabpuinshment.pdf (by the American veterinary society of animal behavior) (They probably don't know anything either, but you can post it if you like)

[puppydog]

Originally Posted by Doberluv

Heh, heh...you're brave. Have they come after you with alpha rolls or choke chains yet?

I am trying hard to not aruge and just present facts. It is not easy though.
I could do with some help please!

[Fran101]

I respect other people and their training methods. would i ever use cesar milans philosophies on kenya? hell no.

but i respect other peoples rights to use it on their dogs. Yes, i do tell them my point of view but no im not going to say their way is "wrong" and my way is "right".
my way is "right" for MY DOG but might not be for everyones.

This is of course with the exception of methods that really do cause brutal physical harm (beating dogs, abuse). Ive never seen ceasar beat a dog or abuse one and I do watch the show fairly often. my tivo often records it because it knows I like dog shows.

As long as YOUR dog is healthy, happy its w/e works for you.

Posting the article on the cesar forum i think was a bit much. if someone came over here and did that about nilif there would be uproar.their responses have been polite and civil, which is surprising to see on a forum. maybe it did educate a select few, but for most on that forum, cesars way has worked for them and their dogs already.. so why would they change? definetly over an article posted rather impolitely on their forum with the title "Read this and learn, abuse is not needed!!!!". that is making a blanket statement. most of those people probably dont abuse their dogs, its a dog forum full of dog lovers, just like this one.

this is just my 2 cents of course. im just not a "my way or the highway" kind of person.

[puppydog]

That is exactly what I meant. I am hoping that these people will realise that the method cesar teaches is in fact, abuse. It is nothing but nasty fear mongering. All I am hoping for is to change just ONE persons mind. As my mind was changed.

[Doberluv]

I just edited my last post....added another good linik.

[release the hounds]

i'm a big fan of blasting hooters, problem is I don't have the accessories to do that technique correctly and nobody else around me is willing to do it. I try to convince them of the well trained dogs they will have, as evident by the "oohhh's" and "ahhhh's" they'll get while on the training field. But so far i'm having trouble convincing others to try that method. Maybe I'll write a book and get a tv show, i wonder who will pick that up?