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  #21  
Old 08-19-2009, 10:40 PM
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Default Sable collies

I know these posts are old.. but I think I should clear a few things up about the sable or sable merle collies. Someone posted that a sable is a sable... not true. There are many different sable types. There are pure for sable, sable merle, tri factored sable, golden sable, mahogany sable, etc. The white collie pictured in a post above is not a double dilute merle. That is a white collie with sable merle markings. A double dilute is all white with just a hint of merle around one eye or on the ears only. Their noses and areas around their eyes are usually pink. They come from breeding two merle dogs together. (True with any breed). If one parent is a non carrier of eye disease, you will not have any eye problems out of these collies... that does not guarantee no hearing issues though. Most double dilute dogs are born with or will develop eye or hearing problems. Now, to clear up what colors collies and shelties are. Sable, sable merle, pure for sable, tri factored sable, white factored sable, tri and white facotred sable, white facotred sable merle, tri factored sable merle, white and tri factored sable merle, tri color, white factored tri color, blue merle, white factored blue merle, and white (with sable, sable merle, blue merle, tri (any can be tri factored as well). What does factored mean? If your collie is white factored, it will produce white and white factored offspring when bred to another white factored dog. Tri factored is the same. To get merle, you only need one merle parent because merle is dominant.

Last edited by currywoodcollies; 08-19-2009 at 11:25 PM.
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  #22  
Old 08-19-2009, 10:45 PM
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Default Blonde collie

I am a collie breeder. What you are talking about is called a golden sable. Probably pure for sable. My first collie was one. He did not have hardly any white on him.

Last edited by currywoodcollies; 08-19-2009 at 11:37 PM.
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  #23  
Old 08-19-2009, 10:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by currywoodcollies View Post
I know these posts are old.. but I think I should clear a few things up about the sable or sable merle collies. Someone posted that a sable is a sable... not true. There are many different sable types. There are pure for sable, sable merle, tri factored sable, golden sable, mahogany sable, etc. The white collie pictured in a post below is not a double dilute merle. That is a white collie with sable merle markings. A double dilute is all white with just a hint of merle around one eye or on the ears only. Their noses and areas around their eyes are usually pink. They come from breeding two merle dogs together. (True with any breed). If one parent is a non carrier of eye disease, you will not have any eye problems out of these collies... that does not guarantee no hearing issues though. Most double dilute dogs are born with or will develop eye or hearing problems. Now, to clear up what colors collies and shelties are. Sable, sable merle, pure for sable, tri factored sable, white factored sable, tri and white facotred sable, white facotred sable merle, tri factored sable merle, white and tri factored sable merle, tri color, white factored tri color, blue merle, white factored blue merle, and white (with sable, sable merle, blue merle, tri (any can be tri factored as well). What does factored mean? If your collie is white factored, it will produce white and white factored offspring when bred to another white factored dog. Tri factored is the same. To get merle, you only need one merle parent because merle is dominant.
Okay, so:

Factored = Heterozygous?

So the color gene that is "factored" is recessive, but the animal is carrying one copy so it's not expressed? So a tri factored sable looks like a sable, but is able to have tri offspring when bred to a tri or tri factored dog?

Just trying to make sure I understand what you are saying.
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  #24  
Old 08-19-2009, 11:24 PM
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Default tri and white factored collies

A tri factor usually has darker markings around the face and a black patch on the tail. The collie is generally a darker sable. Some lose the darkness around the face over time... the spot on the tail gets larger. White factored collies have full white collars, all white feet, and a very big white tip on the tail.
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  #25  
Old 08-19-2009, 11:32 PM
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Grace :: Collies010.jpg picture by Currywoodcollies - Photobucket

Hudini :: Collies053.jpg picture by Currywoodcollies - Photobucket

Hudini :: Collies071.jpg picture by Currywoodcollies - Photobucket

Romeo.jpg picture by Currywoodcollies - Photobucket

GracespupRuby2-1.jpg picture by Currywoodcollies - Photobucket

Hudini :: Puppies3weeks086.jpg picture by Currywoodcollies - Photobucket

Blue :: BlueandSpade002.jpg picture by Currywoodcollies - Photobucket

http://www.bewitchingcollies.com/ima...uble_merle.jpg

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1065/...899a34.jpg?v=0


The first picture is of my tri and white factored mahogany sable female. The second is a puppy from her first litter...not a pup anymore He is a tri and white factored sable merle. In the second picture of him you can see the black at the base of his tail. The fourth pic is of a collie I owned 6 or 7 years ago. He is a sable collie. No factoring at all. The fifth pic is of another pup of Grace's. She is a tri and white factored sable. (not mahogany like her mother). The 6th picture is of all of Grace's puppies in her 1st litter bred by me. In that litter I had two WF TF sable merles, one WF TF sable, one WF blue merle, 1 WF tri, and 3 whites (2 with TF sable markings and 1 with TF sable merle markings). There are also 2 very tiny lab puppies in the mix. Grace had to play foster mom. The mother got ran over . The 7th picture is of the puppies' sire. He is a WF blue merle. The last 2 pics are of true dilute collies. Notice the pink nose and almost white eyes on the first one. He has sable merle markings. The only color is on one ear. The second has blue merle markings. I am not sure if this collie has eyes (I think so, but my eye site is not so good). Some dilutes are born without them (sign of what some breeders refer to as micropthalmia... which started from breeding for small eyes). Most show breeders say it does not exist and they generally use collies with mild Collie Eye Anomaly because their eyes are usually smaller.

Last edited by currywoodcollies; 08-20-2009 at 12:17 AM.
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  #26  
Old 08-20-2009, 10:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Romy View Post
I found this picture of a double dilute merle collie, but it didn't say if it's blue or sable merle:

It may be a double dilute, but it sure is pretty!
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  #27  
Old 08-20-2009, 12:39 PM
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That collie is not a double dilute. If you google double dilute it does show up, but that is only because it is a picture of a collie on a site that talks about the collie colors. this is the site Google Image Result for http://dynastycollies.com/images/sky2.jpg There are 4 pictures of white collies on there... none are double dilutes
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  #28  
Old 08-20-2009, 04:53 PM
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That's for clarifying, that makes a lot of sense.
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  #29  
Old 08-20-2009, 07:10 PM
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In Collies (collie Collies lol) = all shades of sable are called "sable". People can make up names like "blonde" to sell them as "rare" for more money, but a sable is a sable is a sable for all intents and purposes. But many people need to think their dogs are rare in some way to make themselves feel special.
My statement was regarding the color's name in the breed only, not the genetic aspects of sable. I just wanted to clear up the fact that there is no "blonde" in collies. What is fawn in a Boxer is sable in a Collie; what is buff in a Cocker is sable in a Collie. That's all I was saying ...

Thanks for the post to explain the different sable characteristics ... I think others will find it interesting. Nice looking dogs BTW.
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  #30  
Old 08-20-2009, 07:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by currywoodcollies View Post
A tri factor usually has darker markings around the face and a black patch on the tail. The collie is generally a darker sable. Some lose the darkness around the face over time... the spot on the tail gets larger. White factored collies have full white collars, all white feet, and a very big white tip on the tail.
They usually have these characteristics. If there are modifiers that mask the white, you can have broken collars, and very little white on the tail and feet, yet by parentage (a white sire for instance) you know the dog is white factored, although you can't tell by looking at him/her.
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