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  #11  
Old 05-12-2009, 08:17 PM
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Zoom Zoom is offline
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It sure sounded like it. You just advised someone to essentially start a dog fight between two dogs wearing "service" vests, thereby creating tha public impression that service dogs are no different than any other and giving credence to those who want to ban them from any sort of public venue. Keep your ridiculous statements to yourself.

I put in my vote for the above suggestion about printing out the real rules and giving the store owner an out.
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  #12  
Old 05-12-2009, 08:20 PM
Boxer100 Boxer100 is offline
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I would talk to the owner of this dog and ask them to show proof that this is a service dog. The owner of the store can print out the rules, but I am not sure who will enforce these rules.
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  #13  
Old 05-12-2009, 08:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxer100 View Post
I would talk to the owner of this dog and ask them to show proof that this is a service dog. The owner of the store can print out the rules, but I am not sure who will enforce these rules.
A. proof is anything from a vest to a card to the owner's say so.
B. the OP is a customer at the store and has no legal grounds to even ask for proof if it were required.
C. enforcement is first up to the store management to handle. It's entirely possible that they aren't aware that they can ask that the dog leave. If the store management doesn't, then it could be taken up with the police, maybe animal control, possibly the DoJ.

Your advice is dangerous as well as illegal.
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  #14  
Old 05-12-2009, 08:36 PM
Boxer100 Boxer100 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by corgipower View Post
A. proof is anything from a vest to a card to the owner's say so.
B. the OP is a customer at the store and has no legal grounds to even ask for proof if it were required.
C. enforcement is first up to the store management to handle. It's entirely possible that they aren't aware that they can ask that the dog leave. If the store management doesn't, then it could be taken up with the police, maybe animal control, possibly the DoJ.

Your advice is dangerous as well as illegal.
My advice is not illegal. Asking a person to show proof is not illegal especially if their dog is trying to attack you. What is up with you? If that dog bites me, who is at fault? Better ask the owner of the dog what the problem with that dog is than wait until it bites you and then call the owner of the store who will say they have no idea what is happening.
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  #15  
Old 05-12-2009, 08:41 PM
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Sure you can ask.. but they have no obligation to answer.

And really Boxer.. that advice is HORRID!!! Its silly, bad for SD in general, and dangerous.
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  #16  
Old 05-12-2009, 08:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxer100 View Post
My advice is not illegal. Asking a person to show proof is not illegal. What is up with you? If that dog bites me, who is at fault? Better ask the owner of the dog what the problem with that dog is than wait until it bites you and then call the owner of the store who will say they have no idea what is happening.
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3. Q: How can I tell if an animal is really a service animal and not just a pet?

A: Some, but not all, service animals wear special collars and harnesses. Some, but not all, are licensed or certified and have identification papers. If you are not certain that an animal is a service animal, you may ask the person who has the animal if it is a service animal required because of a disability. However, an individual who is going to a restaurant or theater is not likely to be carrying documentation of his or her medical condition or disability. Therefore, such documentation generally may not be required as a condition for providing service to an individual accompanied by a service animal. Although a number of states have programs to certify service animals, you may not insist on proof of state certification before permitting the service animal to accompany the person with a disability.
Better be clear on the ADA laws before making statements.

There are ways to ask if he's a service dog and ways that are a violation of federal law. Better to leave the "asking" to the proper authorities.
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  #17  
Old 05-12-2009, 09:04 PM
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Any one with a service dog or a TDI dog will carry a card of proof ! Shame on them if they buy a vest on line and aren't members !
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  #18  
Old 05-12-2009, 09:06 PM
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Originally Posted by bubbatd View Post
Any one with a service dog or a TDI dog will carry a card of proof ! Shame on them if they buy a vest on line and aren't members !
No. Not everyone with a SD carries proof, and there is no legal requirement to do so. A TDI isn't even relevant, as they don't have public access rights. And as for buying a vest - members of what?? There's no SD club.
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  #19  
Old 05-13-2009, 09:42 AM
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FoxyWench FoxyWench is offline
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thank you corgie!

it is AGAINST the law to ask for "PROOF"

you CAN ask
is that a service dog?
what kind of services does your dog perform?

you CANNOT ask
Are you disabled?
can i see "proof" your dog is a service dog?

dogs from service dog training programs (mostly guide and hearing dogs and some mobility dogs) will usually have an id card, patch or tag, but this is simply "Bling" they are NOT required by law to have or display these things

MANY service dogs are OWNER trained (ruby for example) these dogs are usually more "none visable" disability service dogs, ruby is aseivure ALERT AND RESPONCE dog who is also now considered an emotional support and other medical alert animal due to some other reacent issues that have sprung up in my person.
she is OWNER trained, medical responce dogs particularly are usually owner trained because their services require them to be very intune with their handlers body language and body chemistry...

there is no test that aservice dog has to take, nothing you can ask for to "prove" a dog is a service dog.
Heavens, service dogs DO NOT have to even wear a cape/vest/jacket!

infact by "asking" for proof you violate a disabled persons rights AND put them at risk...
you demand proof from one person and they give it to you...eventually everyone ASSUMES there suppoesd to carry proof on them at all times and those like me, with self trained service dogs get screwed over left right and center because now every idot thinks they have rights t demand this "proof" and then you have issues gaining acess and legal issues popping up.

in truth in many areas folks who rightfully have service dogs simply dont take them because theyve been harrassed so many times about "having proof" and people NOT knowing the law reguarding service dogs!

that all being said however, it is clearly stated through the ADA that a service dog CAN be asked to leave LEGALLY and the owner of the store/resturaunt/buisness is safe IF the dog is acting in such a way that its being disruptive to normal buisness.
no service dog should show agression and this is certainly one of those cases id be personally inclined to think "someone with the internet knows the law" (and in these cases it makes me even sadder because the people that tend to knwo it are the ones abusing it) unfortunatly theres nothing you can do about getting any kind of citation, but the store owner CAN under legal rights ask the customer to Remove her dog from the premises...
the customer MUST be given the oportunity to return WITHOUT the dog (he cant ban her just because the dogs being unrooly) BUT he can ask that the dog not be in the store due to its behaviour. not being able to enter an entire aisle simply because theres an agressive "service dog" is disruptive and he would be supported under the ADA laws (even if she got pissy and threw charges at him) just be prepared however, if he is an actual service dog (just a realy bad one) and the owner asks her to leave, she MAY try and bring up legal matters, please be willing to stand up in court/make a statment should the need arise on behalf of the store owner about the dogs behaviour.

unfortunatly its rare around here to see a store following the rules, i get issues all the time (and being completly none confrontational i have a tendency to just get pouty and leave)
so it drives me crazy when i see poor store owners like this one, knowing service dog rights but being put through hell like this...
its like honestly, if your going to abuse the system people, by stating your dog is a service dog even if it isnt...keep your animal UNDER control and dot give those who realy do rely on their dogs a bad name!
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  #20  
Old 05-13-2009, 09:53 AM
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Is it just me or does everyone seem a bit sensitive lately?
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