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  #31  
Old 05-07-2009, 12:43 PM
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Originally Posted by BostonBanker View Post
Well, sure but anything will be bad if used improperly. I've been in a minimum of one training class a week (either agility and/or obedience) every single week since about 3 weeks after I got Meg. That's three years. Am I "over-doing" it?

Some people who only see her in certain situations may think she's being 'over-trained', although I hope nobody ever looks at her and thinks she unexcited by life. I took her to the Little League field last night when there were a million kids/dogs/adults running around like lunatics, and trained a bit. Heeling, laying quietly, not getting up when people walked by, etc. I don't want her getting up and trying to visit every human who walks by, so I'm training her not to. But it's a behavior she's learning to perform, not an attitude adjustment I'm trying to create.

So I guess what I'm saying is - if you are thinking about a particular dog you know, how often do you see the dog and in how many different situations? If you are asking in general, I absolutely think that some types of training can create a shut-down, unhappy dog very easily. I also think there are some amazingly well-trained dogs who adore their lives and their work, and who may never go great people or other dogs because it's been trained into them. They are often the same dogs who I see doing all their obedience "in drive", like the enthusiasm Lyric clearly showed in his training. Prompt obedience and good behavior don't have to mean shut-down and unhappy.
No I would not consider your regiment to be over-doing it. I see agility classes as benificial for the dogs mental and physical stimulation. I am taking it that your dog is a more high energy dog that benefits from that sort of training.

There is a difference between a dog that gets punished for not "behaving" to the extreme expectations of its owner(s) and a dog that has a job it enjoys doing and that it was trained to do in a positive manner.
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  #32  
Old 05-07-2009, 12:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
No I would not consider your regiment to be over-doing it. I see agility classes as benificial for the dogs mental and physical stimulation. I am taking it that your dog is a more high energy dog that benifits from that sort of training.

There is a difference between a dog that gets punished for not "behaving" to the extreme expectations of its owner(s) and a dog that has a job it enjoys doing and that it was trained to do in a positive manner.
Thats just poor training.. and the dog is shut down. You see some shut down agility dogs too (there are people out there training it with e collars)

I compete in obedience and expect great things.. but I don't punish. If the dog fails to perform... then you have failed to train. (or the dog is in pain, etc)
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  #33  
Old 05-07-2009, 12:52 PM
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lol i spent most of steve's hour-long agility class last night working on teaching him to be calm and thoughtful in the face of something EXTREMELY exciting to him (ie running dogs).
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  #34  
Old 05-07-2009, 01:03 PM
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lol i spent most of steve's hour-long agility class last night working on teaching him to be calm and thoughtful in the face of something EXTREMELY exciting to him (ie running dogs).
I don't see anything wrong with having your dog under control, especially with running dogs all around. I know I would a heck of a time getting my guys to stay calm in that situation as well.

But to have a dog that just lays there like a rock and has no zest for life is not right. Might as well just trade in that miserable dog for a patio stone.
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  #35  
Old 05-07-2009, 01:06 PM
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I am confused...

First off you seemed to be saying over training was bad... But now you are saying it ok.

Quote:
But to have a dog that just lays there like a rock and has no zest for life is not right. Might as well just trade in that miserable dog for a patio stone.
You can get that in a dog with only a few 'training' sessions if you are harsh enough and your dog is not overly 'hard'... it has nothing to do with amount of training. A single bad class has the pontential to shut down a dog.... Where as a lifetime of good classes never will.
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  #36  
Old 05-07-2009, 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Dekka View Post
I am confused...

First off you seemed to be saying over training was bad... But now you are saying it ok.

You can get that in a dog with only a few 'training' sessions if you are harsh enough and your dog is not overly 'hard'... it has nothing to do with amount of training. A single bad class has the pontential to shut down a dog.... Where as a lifetime of good classes never will.
Over training for the dog to not want to do anything is wrong.

Training for physical and mental stimulation is completly different.
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  #37  
Old 05-07-2009, 01:11 PM
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But that isn't 'over training'... its suppressing the dog. As I said it can be done in a single session. It has nothing to do with 'training'...
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  #38  
Old 05-07-2009, 01:12 PM
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A calm dog is a comfort and it doesn't mean they are lacking anything their exuberant cousins lack. Once a dog came in city market and put his nose right where he shouldn't. His owner talked away to me and i am watching Bronki. HE is so pissed he is vibrating but he waited and it went away..and he looked at me with a tail thump. He just took things in stride. AN easy dog on me.
An ill dog will act like the op described as well.
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Last edited by smkie; 05-07-2009 at 01:36 PM.
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  #39  
Old 05-07-2009, 01:14 PM
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Originally Posted by smkie View Post
A calm dog is a comfort and it doesn't mean they are lacking anything their exuberant cousins lack. Once a dog came in city market and put his nose right where he shouldn't. His owner talked away to me and i am watching Bronki. HE is so pissed he is vibrating but he waited and it went away..and he looked at me with a tail thump. He just took things in stride. HE was incredible. A piece of my heart died with him.
No one is saying a naturally calm dog has anything wrong with it. (at least not in this thread.... at least I havent' seen it)

This thread has been the discussing MAKING an exuberant dog calm through suppressive training....
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  #40  
Old 05-07-2009, 01:35 PM
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I am not sure that is possible. I think that is my point. PErsonality does play into it.
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