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  #1  
Old 04-16-2009, 10:10 AM
RedyreRottweilers
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Default Past or Present?

Subject for discussion:

Stud dogs of the past

Do you think your breed is better or worse than it was 20 years ago?

Are there dogs of the past that you feel you would like to use if the semen was available and you had the right bitch?

There are some dogs I like very much from the past, however, I also feel that the Rottweiler has evolved/improved to the point where dogs of 20 years ago would not generally be of great benefit. In particular dogs of this era most did not have elbow or heart screening on record. We can determine to a large extent from pedigrees and current health testing records which dogs produced mostly normal offspring or not, however, with some dogs there will always just be a big question mark where these issues are concerned.

For me I think at this point in time there are plenty enough very nice dogs who are currently available that I would not need to consider a frozen implant from a deceased dog.

Anyone else?
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Old 04-16-2009, 10:26 AM
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Interesting question Red! My first thought would be to say the Border Collie breed as a whole is worse now than compared to 20 years ago because there is a much bigger split now.
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Old 04-16-2009, 10:46 AM
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For shelties, it's yesteryear by far for me. Imo, shelties have gone downhill over the years. I long for the more functional, less collie like, less exaggerated dogs of yesteryear. We've done so much inbreeding over here it's scary as well.

Here's the oldest dogs I can find.

The earliest Shetland Sheepdogs

Lerwick Jarl
This one is probably my favorite.

Or this one:
Ch. Woodvold (Thyne's)

Ch Farburn Captain
I love that dog's look

http://hem.passagen.se/nightwin/arti...es/72group.jpg
Look at the legs and less coat.

Misty of Greyhill

http://www.portmazathe.nl/ped/photo/...tlassie500.jpg (she was half collie, though)

More collie crosses I like:

Eng/Am Ch Catmore Chum
Ch Wee Laird o'Downfield

We Laird doesn't need to be re-added to the line, he's 25% of the American sheltie nowadays.

I just think they were even more beautiful back then.

As far as paps go, I'm actually not as up on the old time dogs, From looking at pictures of *show dogs* they look fairly similar, though it's beginning to get more refined, more typey. As far as the breed's origins, I actually don't like the way they looked. They were a lot more spaniel-y and many were solid colored. Kirby made the breed a lot more popular in recent years, unfortunately. It has really been the catalyst for the breed's sudden popularity and the start of seeing paps in pet stores and mills. I love that Kirby did so well, he was an outstanding dog, but I wish they went' back to their pre-90s popularity.
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Old 04-16-2009, 10:57 AM
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Goldens have more coat and feathering now due to English breeding , but I still like the look of the field breeding .
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Old 04-16-2009, 11:04 AM
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I think papillon history is fascinating. They're a lot more documented than the shelties and you can find paintings back to the 1600s of them.

From the 1700s:

Papillon Club of America's Historical Website
Papillon Club of America's Historical Website

Those two phalenes look basically identical to today's phalenes.

This is supposedly the first painting of an erect eared continental toy spaniel. I can't say I want to go back to this look, though.

Papillon Club of America's Historical Website

This is the oldest photo I can find: WebGeneal 4.7.0 (2004.05.01) (looks like a chi to me. That color is no longer accepted either)

Didn't really answer the question but I thought it was interesting.
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Last edited by Laurelin; 04-16-2009 at 11:26 AM.
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Old 04-16-2009, 11:37 AM
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I love today's Pap Ears !!
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Old 04-16-2009, 01:43 PM
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Speaking strictly with working circles, the Aussie hasn't really changed too much over the last 20 years, though there are now screenings and tests to run for epilepsy, MDR1 gene mutation and CERF/OFA. Prior to 1994, there really wasn't a split within the breed, so it's extremely sad and disheartening to see what 15 years has wrought. Bayshore, for example, was one of the foundation kennels in ASCA. Now, they are so far into AKC territory that they aren't terribly well liked by most of ASCA and their dogs have lost basically all working ability, trading it for the flash that wins in the ring.
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Old 04-16-2009, 02:06 PM
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Some from 20 yrs ago, would depend on the dog, 10 yrs yes. Today the terriers we are seeing have been bred so much for show ring that they are now over angulated behind and too straight for the front angulation. Which of course is a big no, the angles must match front to back. Yes these new jrts are pretty and boy oh boy can they trot pretty around a ring, but they are useless for much else, imo. Its especially disappointing when the breed standard states that they are to have 'moderate angulation'.
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Old 04-16-2009, 02:42 PM
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I would say over all both Labs and Cocker Spaniels are worse off. With the exception of some field breeders.
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Old 04-16-2009, 03:09 PM
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I was digging through some old links and re-found this page that I just love to look at!

Overall, the basics of the Aussie haven't changed much since they were first introduced to this country back in the last 1880s. It's been in the last 10 years that the over-coated, heavy-boned dogs have started to replace the lighter, wash n' wear type.

Las Rocosa Australian Shepherds: Timeline:* Breed Development from obscurity into mainstream popularity
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