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  #41  
Old 04-15-2009, 04:10 PM
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Maxy24 Maxy24 is offline
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I'm glad the pup is staying with you and that you start training soon. Even if you learn nothing from training class, IMO the socializing is worth every minute. I'm sure Val will grow into a wonderful dog with an owner like you his is willing to look into what is best for him. Keep us updated! and tell us how class goes. Remember that if you are uncomfortable with what they tell you to do in class there are always other classes and other trainers, never do something you are uncomfortable with because you think you HAVE to or the trainer acts like he is holier than thou and calls you a weak leader, believe me it happens.

Keep us updated, remember to stick with the desensitizing, I think if every puppy owner would take a small portion of time everyday to touch their pup in "unnecessary" places (feet, open mouth, look in ears, check pulse in inner thigh, felt belly, gave a hug etc.) just once or twice a day without force but just in the course of a cuddle time so that it's pleasant, many bites could be avoided (and your vet would be thankful!). People never touch a dog's feet except to cut their nails, they get their ears looked in once a year, belly felt once a year and only get hugged when a kid comes up and gives them a squeeze. If a dog does not regularly experience these things he considers them a threat, it's a safety technique for wild animals that still exists in domestic animals: Unknown=dangerous. So your best defense is to make less and less things unknown to your dog.

Yes yelping works on some dogs and makes things worse for others. I found it worked WONDERFULLY on a Chow mix at the shelter but horribly with a Schnauzer mix puppy that my friend owned.

Bite inhibition is a great thing, like antipunt said. It is why I recommend people don't stop their dogs from mouthing right off. they let the pup mouth gently and stop the pup as soon as he adds pressure, this way the dog actually learns how to calibrate his jaw strength to what people can handle. he gains the information for how much bite pressure human flesh needs for a warning bite vs. a serious bite with intent to harm/kill. If you don't do this the dog must use the only bite information he has and that is how hard a dog can be bitten for a warning bite. A dog can be bitten a lot harder than a human and come out unscathed. A warning bite to another dog, when used on a human, can make a person bleed. So a dog who never learns what human skin can handle will be clueless as to how hard to bite if he ever feels he MUST bite (he is afraid he will be hurt/killed and must save himself) and will use a dog to dog warning bite on you (and if he's unsocialized to dogs/taken from litter mates too early he will give an utterly clueless bite, using no knowledge of any sort of bite inhibition even to other dogs) which may break the skin or at least cause bruising. if the dog did learn what human's can handle he will know how to bite you without causing damage (unless he intended to which usually only happens if the dog has some sort of psychological issue or is truly aggressive (temperament flaw), not just reacting out of fear/reflex) just enough to tell you to back off NOW.

Hopefully that made sense I kind of just spewed it out.


Antipunt I'm glad things are going so much better with your pup, I remember you were having some troubles with the biting, it's great to hear that things are working and Wanta is growing up into a well mannered pup.
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  #42  
Old 04-15-2009, 06:56 PM
Val_theAussie Val_theAussie is offline
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Thanks so much. I've been sent some different websites on Aussie behavior by an Aussie group and have brushing up with loads of reading, since I've apparently forgotten some puppy basics after taking care of an oldster for quite some time. (RIP Mathilda).
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  #43  
Old 04-15-2009, 07:01 PM
Val_theAussie Val_theAussie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxy24 View Post
I'm glad the pup is staying with you and that you start training soon. Even if you learn nothing from training class, IMO the socializing is worth every minute. I'm sure Val will grow into a wonderful dog with an owner like you his is willing to look into what is best for him. Keep us updated! and tell us how class goes. Remember that if you are uncomfortable with what they tell you to do in class there are always other classes and other trainers, never do something you are uncomfortable with because you think you HAVE to or the trainer acts like he is holier than thou and calls you a weak leader, believe me it happens.

Keep us updated, remember to stick with the desensitizing, I think if every puppy owner would take a small portion of time everyday to touch their pup in "unnecessary" places (feet, open mouth, look in ears, check pulse in inner thigh, felt belly, gave a hug etc.) just once or twice a day without force but just in the course of a cuddle time so that it's pleasant, many bites could be avoided (and your vet would be thankful!). People never touch a dog's feet except to cut their nails, they get their ears looked in once a year, belly felt once a year and only get hugged when a kid comes up and gives them a squeeze. If a dog does not regularly experience these things he considers them a threat, it's a safety technique for wild animals that still exists in domestic animals: Unknown=dangerous. So your best defense is to make less and less things unknown to your dog.

Yes yelping works on some dogs and makes things worse for others. I found it worked WONDERFULLY on a Chow mix at the shelter but horribly with a Schnauzer mix puppy that my friend owned.

Bite inhibition is a great thing, like antipunt said. It is why I recommend people don't stop their dogs from mouthing right off. they let the pup mouth gently and stop the pup as soon as he adds pressure, this way the dog actually learns how to calibrate his jaw strength to what people can handle. he gains the information for how much bite pressure human flesh needs for a warning bite vs. a serious bite with intent to harm/kill. If you don't do this the dog must use the only bite information he has and that is how hard a dog can be bitten for a warning bite. A dog can be bitten a lot harder than a human and come out unscathed. A warning bite to another dog, when used on a human, can make a person bleed. So a dog who never learns what human skin can handle will be clueless as to how hard to bite if he ever feels he MUST bite (he is afraid he will be hurt/killed and must save himself) and will use a dog to dog warning bite on you (and if he's unsocialized to dogs/taken from litter mates too early he will give an utterly clueless bite, using no knowledge of any sort of bite inhibition even to other dogs) which may break the skin or at least cause bruising. if the dog did learn what human's can handle he will know how to bite you without causing damage (unless he intended to which usually only happens if the dog has some sort of psychological issue or is truly aggressive (temperament flaw), not just reacting out of fear/reflex) just enough to tell you to back off NOW.

Hopefully that made sense I kind of just spewed it out.


Antipunt I'm glad things are going so much better with your pup, I remember you were having some troubles with the biting, it's great to hear that things are working and Wanta is growing up into a well mannered pup.

Your "stream of consciousness" made perfect sense and I will be giving updates on how the puppy classes go. Val needs to be out and about and seeing other dogs and pupsters. A Lab passed us by tonite and he was so excited and wanted to play with the Lab. The Lab was very friendly to Val, but due to the rain and puddles and messey weather everywhere, we promised to play sometime at a later date.
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  #44  
Old 04-16-2009, 09:58 AM
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Lizmo Lizmo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dekka View Post
LOL I wish that were true. Most often its the opposite.. just ask some members here. There is a reason the term 'bitch' means what it does in the vernacular.....
Yes, there is no doubt why they call them "bitches"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoom View Post
Aussies are VERY mouthy little sh*ts at times, especially when they're puppies. They are herders and tend towards being grippy with the stock instead of just staring them down like a Border Collie, so they are quite inclined to use their mouths for more than just barking. One of the first things I had to teach Sawyer when I got him was "watch the teeth!" and he was 18 months old at the time.

Your girl, while lovely I'm sure, doesn't sound like she had much of the true Aussie drives. They tend to be heavily milled here in the Midwest and usually end up as sweet but brainless Goldens in a multi-colored coat. Nothing against Goldens, but they aren't Aussies.

I tend to prefer males over females BECAUSE the males are generally more laid back, LOL! Bitches are bitches for a reason!
Quote:
Originally Posted by AllieMackie View Post
Even Border Collies can often be grippy. Finn's dad was very grippy as a pup (not his mom, though) and I'm finding that Finn forgets his bite inhibition sometimes when he's "in the zone" (read: unconciously thinking that he's working, often when we play outside). He understands bite inhibition and is soft with his mouth 90% of the time, but sometimes when that **** herding instinct goes too far, he loses it a bit.

So, I second what Zoom says about herding dogs. Extra consistency and firmness is needed with them regarding bite inhibition, but it of course can still be taught. At 4 months, I'd say Val is more testing limits and such, and since it was a one-time thing, I doubt it was in his mind to harm you. Just stay on top of the situation.
I agree. Herding breeds -especially Border collies, and since Aussies and collies are alot alike- need firm, but fair handling. Thats one thing I had to learn with Blaze. I can be firm, but if I wasn't fair, he didn't want to work with me.

Blaze was also very mouthy on stock when he was a younger pup. I felt bad for the poor sheep! Haha. But with some correction, he was not dripping anymore.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Val_theAussie View Post
I've decided that I over-reacted to yesterday's incident.
I'm glad you decided this. Val is a 4 month old puppy. Thats very, very young. And way too young to be considering rehoming back to the breeders because of one puppy bite.
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  #45  
Old 04-16-2009, 01:34 PM
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antipunt1 antipunt1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxy24 View Post
Antipunt I'm glad things are going so much better with your pup, I remember you were having some troubles with the biting, it's great to hear that things are working and Wanta is growing up into a well mannered pup.
-much- thx to this forum. (and of course the books you recommended me; they were fantastic)
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  #46  
Old 04-16-2009, 05:47 PM
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colliewog colliewog is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Val_theAussie View Post
I am quoting the following from one of the Stop Biting Puppy Websites.....


"While you are trying to stop your puppies from biting, never play tug of war, wrestling or chase type games with them. This only encourages the biting and nipping."
I would guess this is geared towards out of control play-biting, not aggressive biting. But I didn't read the link, so I could be wrong ...
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  #47  
Old 04-16-2009, 09:48 PM
Val_theAussie Val_theAussie is offline
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We all had a good day today and Val is doing fine!! Just have to be careful with him and those "barracuda" teethies.
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  #48  
Old 04-17-2009, 01:33 PM
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antipunt1 antipunt1 is offline
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^Someone once told me on this forum:

"Puppies are like little sharks..."

It opened my eyes to things >__>
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  #49  
Old 04-17-2009, 01:50 PM
Val_theAussie Val_theAussie is offline
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Val is sleeping at my feet........like a little angel dog.....the weather is great...the yard is without puddles (gonna get a french drain or sumthin' put in soon, as we have drainage trouble in our yard), and Val had a great time playing and exercising this morning like an Aussie needs so much.

Old Mathilda (RIP) would have loved this puppy so......
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  #50  
Old 04-27-2009, 04:19 PM
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I just read this thread, and through great advise received here and on my ESS thread, Maddie was a terrible mouther until just recently. She is 6 months old, and did draw blood on my hands and arms from not getting it. Her mouthing is so much gentler today, and she has not hurt me for a few months. I am naturally more afraid of dogs, and with alot of training, she is finally getting it. Just hang in there, I'm sure it was an accident. Maddie would have been gone many times over for drawing blood. She really had the razor teeth.
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