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  #31  
Old 04-14-2009, 07:46 PM
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bubbatd bubbatd is offline
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I agree about males !!! I loved my females but none could have been " heart" dogs . Bubba was my heart dog only because of our one and one .... Bushwacker and Bear were close seconds .
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  #32  
Old 04-14-2009, 07:57 PM
Val_theAussie Val_theAussie is offline
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Val is going to stay with his breeder for a few days. She is going to assess the situation, take a look at how Val interacts with her, her dogs and try to see what is going on here.

I am so hoping that things work out for Val.
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  #33  
Old 04-14-2009, 07:59 PM
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Fingers Xed for you !!!
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  #34  
Old 04-14-2009, 07:59 PM
RedyreRottweilers
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I think what happened is that for whatever reason the puppy was overwhelmed and overstimulated, and he whirled around and grabbed what was nearest which was your arm.

Had you had him on a leash, this probably would not have happened.

So, take a lesson from your dog, they are such great teachers. Keep a lead handy and use it. Use food rewards to teach him that collar grabbing is a GREAT thing.

Good you will be in class soon, and I bet your breeder also has good advice for you.
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  #35  
Old 04-14-2009, 08:01 PM
RedyreRottweilers
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oh boy I would not have done that, re sending the pup away.

I think what happened is what I stated above, the puppy was overwhelmed, whirled around, and grabbed whatever was nearby.
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  #36  
Old 04-14-2009, 08:09 PM
Val_theAussie Val_theAussie is offline
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I am hoping that things settle down by the weekend, and it won't be necessary to send the poor dog away from our home.

Either way, I am keeping my fingers crossed....
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  #37  
Old 04-14-2009, 09:06 PM
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He didn't like to be trapped and moved by force. Even if you weren't being rough he had no choice in the matter which can make a dog defensive. He just wanted you to let go, he probably had no intentions of biting you to cause serious harm, it was most likely a warning bite but since he's a pup without bite inhibition he didn't know how hard was too hard.

I would start getting him to like have his collar grabbed and teach him that when he is led by the collar he gets super awesome treats. When it's time to go outside (if he wants out) bring him out by his collar. Maybe bring him to his dinner by the collar. And then set up actual training sessions where you grab his collar and then deliver a treat over and over and then move him by the collar and give treats over and over. Soon collar grabbing will not only be a normal, everyday thing he may even see it as a positive thing.

until you do some of there training sessions (starting with slow, gentle collar grabs under his neck, not over his head and progressing slowly to over the head slow grabs and then to under the chin fast grabs, then over the head fast grabs, then increased roughness etc.) never grab him or lead him by the collar. Use a leash, you won't have to lean over him when you move him, you will walk at a more normal pace with a normal stance and he will be less trapped. Also work on teaching words that you can use in the future to move him, things like come, off (of furniture), back up etc. are great commands to use to communicate to your dog so that you don't have to get in his space which can be threatening to a dog.

I most certainly think a dog should tolerate collar grabbing because sometimes it has to be done, emergencies happen, dog goes to grab a pill you dropped or bolt out the door and you might have to grab his collar, but it is in no way a gesture they naturally accept. They must be desensitized to it (using positive association aka TREATS) or socialized to it (if young enough that it does not bother them yet, this is simply exposing them to the action over and over so it becomes no big deal, there does not need to be positive association so long as nothing bad occurs in conjunction with the gesture, they just need to have a lot of exposure to it. This is not an option for you as your pup already dislikes it).


I also agree that tug does not cause aggression. In fact it is a useful game for dogs to learn to control themselves in stimulating situations. The dog has to play a stimulating game of tug AND has to watch his mouth. If his teeth touch you he broke the big rule and the game ends, so the dog learns to watch himself. The only time tug could cause biting problems is if the owner allows the dog to slip and bite the hands during the game without ending the game, the dog learns that hands are fair game, just another toy. So long as biting (even accidental) is not allowed in tug it's more useful than harmful IMO.


I know you must be very hurt by what your pup did, I can't imagine what it would be like to get bit by your own dog but remember he is just a "child" and he was scared and/or uncomfortable. I would in no way say that this makes him dangerous but it does need to be addressed so that it does not continue especially once he's bigger, if he gets to rehearse this biting behavior over and over he will learn that it is a very good way to get you to stop doing things he does not like so it's best to prevent putting him in situations he finds uncomfortable until you can desensitize him to them and teach him to accept or like them through positive association.


Good luck with your pup, they can be a lot of hard work but it'll be worth it in the end!
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  #38  
Old 04-14-2009, 09:35 PM
Val_theAussie Val_theAussie is offline
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Thanks so much Maxy! I'm sure we're gonna be fine. Your post was loads of help. Rome wasn't built in a day and a dog won't be trained in one either.

Perhaps I over-reacted to this situation. Well, we got puppy classes this weekend!
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  #39  
Old 04-15-2009, 11:21 AM
Val_theAussie Val_theAussie is offline
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I've decided that I over-reacted to yesterday's incident. I've also decided that with Val being traumatized over his paws being clipped, he might be very sensitive to outside stimuli for now. I am not turning him over to the breeder, to further traumatize him, which is what moving him back and forth would do. He is a very happy dog here generally speaking, and this one incident doesn't condemn him for the rest of his days. I haven't been using the crate much, but I will start to use it, at appropriate times.
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  #40  
Old 04-15-2009, 03:23 PM
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antipunt1 antipunt1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxy24 View Post
Even if you weren't being rough he had no choice in the matter which can make a dog defensive. He just wanted you to let go, he probably had no intentions of biting you to cause serious harm, it was most likely a warning bite but since he's a pup without bite inhibition he didn't know how hard was too hard .
This right here, imo, is golden. I'm saying this b/c my puppy, Wanta, also is very mouthy. If you play catch with her, you have to be careful b/c she might nip you from overstimulation. That said, we taught her bite-inhibition as a pup (played with her mouth/teeth/ignoring-play/socializing with other dogs), thx to the help from this forum, actually

And my theory is that -because of this-, my puppy never bites me hard. I've never bleed or anything, that is, except sometimes while we were training her (months back) I got some scratches. But nowadays, she -never- bites hard. I can see the inhibition working!

Sorry about your bite , I know how you feel . There were times when I worried Wanta would grow aggressive, but you'd be surprised how much you can 'shape' a dog's personality with the right techniques.

That said, back when Wanta was biting me (the bleeding/scratches period), I got nervous and found the exact same website you did! And...it -was- garbage actually. LOL, I found that the best tactics were a combo of time-outs and ignoring. The yip/look like you were hurt theory is crud, and only made my puppy bite me harder (think about it logically: yipping? Mmm...rabbits!) <--that said I have heard that this technique can work, but you have to be -very- careful with regards to how you execute it, and it only works with more passive-breeds. And with Dachshunds...yea...they kill badgers!)
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