Upset Tummy due to Unbalanced Raw Diet?

[Crowsfeet]

You guys are all lovely, thank you ! :P

I have "roughly" been feeding prey model, roughly because it seems as though a lot of the models of any raw diet seem so ambiguous sometimes?

I'm doing a little shopping for my puppy(um, dog, I guess) today, and I think this is the path I might take..

12 lbs. of Ground Chicken(to provide a base and familiarity from last month?)
8 lbs. of Pork Necks
10 lbs. of "Complete", varied types of Raw Chubs(complete because they not only include meat, but organ and bone as well)
And maybe some Dogzyme-y stuff!

[Dekka]

Originally Posted by BoxMeIn21

Interesting Dekka, thanks for the breakdown. That makes me curious because any of the prey model info I've found has always described the ratio to be at 80/10/10. Now these are chickens and farm raised rabbits that I feed, which have more meat on them than if they were in the wild. Maybe that's were the ratio is a little bit off?

Even if you take a farm raised animal you will still only be about 40%. Rabbits are still very lean as meat animals go. Weigh a live rabbit, then get a dressed weight (carcass minus head, skin and innards) and still realize you still have ribs, spine, shoulders, and pelvis (and I think humerous and femur)

Animals are a lot more bony than I think a lot of raw feeders realize.

[BoxMeIn21]

Originally Posted by Dekka

Even if you take a farm raised animal you will still only be about 40%. Rabbits are still very lean as meat animals go. Weigh a live rabbit, then get a dressed weight (carcass minus head, skin and innards) and still realize you still have ribs, spine, shoulders, and pelvis (and I think humerous and femur)

Animals are a lot more bony than I think a lot of raw feeders realize.

Very interesting. Thanks for the info. Do you have any resources you could share along these lines? I'd be interested in learning more.

[Dekka]

Don't have any of them saved at the moment. (google is your friend ) Talk to your local butcher (if they do the whole process from killing to selling) Try the experiment with the rabbits you get.... I found that the dressed ready to cook whole chicken (so rib cage, spine, wings, pelvis, thighs) is 70% its live weight. So even if you say only 15% of that is bone weight you are only at 55% meat.

[Crowsfeet]

The prey-model-break-down you guys are talking about is really interesting-

Dekka, do you feel as though or know if wolves will completely consume their prey? I feel as though the 80/10/10 ratio seems about right because wouldn't a wolf avoid consuming the weight-bearing bones(pelvis, femur, etc.) of an animal? Could this account for that estranged percentage? My boyfriend and I were discussing it and he brought about this point.

Perhaps the ratio more could be more accurately presented with something like 60/20/20?

[Romy]

Originally Posted by BoxMeIn21

Interesting Dekka, thanks for the breakdown. That makes me curious because any of the prey model info I've found has always described the ratio to be at 80/10/10. Now these are chickens and farm raised rabbits that I feed, which have more meat on them than if they were in the wild. Maybe that's were the ratio is a little bit off?

That is definitely a possibility. Keep in mind that the commercial strains of poultry and rabbits are much heavier muscled than "regular" chickens, turkeys, rabbits, etc. much less the wild ones. If you take the production cornish cross broilers and raise them out, they should reach market weight in 7-9 weeks. Their muscle tissue growth is so unbalanced with the rest of their bodies that they usually die of heart failure or simply can not get up and walk around if left to grow too long. They get too heavy and their joints fail.

The plump juicy roasters and chicken breasts we have grown to expect on our gorocery shelves are nothing like the chicken our great grandparents ate.

[Psyfalcon]

That might be it (I seem to remember it).

However, "our" wolves are really somewhat anomalous when compared to the rest of the wolf subspecies. Only in the northern climates do they rely that much on large ungulates. Elsewhere, they will often prefer smaller prey.

[Dekka]

Originally Posted by Crowsfeet

The prey-model-break-down you guys are talking about is really interesting-

Dekka, do you feel as though or know if wolves will completely consume their prey? I feel as though the 80/10/10 ratio seems about right because wouldn't a wolf avoid consuming the weight-bearing bones(pelvis, femur, etc.) of an animal? Could this account for that estranged percentage? My boyfriend and I were discussing it and he brought about this point.

Perhaps the ratio more could be more accurately presented with something like 60/20/20?

I have seen a number of 'left overs' from coyote and a few wolf kills with sheep and calves. There is NOT a lot left when they are done. Hide (more with calves and lambs than with wooly sheep) is eaten as is often parts of the skull. Pelvis seems to be tastey...


I would still think if you are basing it on wild prey you are still doing well if you say they are 50% meat. Domestic animals a little more. But domestic meat animals are much fattier and 'meaty' than a primal diet (for humans or dogs)

[Romy]

University of California - UC Newsroom | Scavengers benefit by dining with wolves

Here is an interesting article on wolf dining habits. Though they don't give many details on the parts consumed.