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  #41  
Old 04-14-2009, 02:01 PM
AGonzalez AGonzalez is offline
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So it's still an "open" registry then? As an example, my friend in Colorado has a JRT bitch (and I mean bitch, she's a little twerp! lol) she is registered...but if she wasn't could she be registered with the JRTCC (assuming he was a Canadian resident and she is within standard?)

I'm not sure I understood that part of it?

I'm still not sure I understand all of it, a good example would be this. My grandparents breed horses, we've had a lot of buyers from Canada who are now breeders. The horses have pedigrees that go all the way back to the 1930's in some cases, but it's not a recognized breed by the APA. So they are selling colts in Canada with their registration papers, as purebred because they are...is what they are doing wrong/illegal?

Not trying to hijack my own thread with horsey stuff, but since it's been said that it was intended for livestock I thought I'd ask.
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  #42  
Old 04-14-2009, 03:03 PM
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With JRTs it would depend registered with who. If they are registered with the AKC.. then she can't be reg JRTCC.. if she is registered JRTCA then yes no prob. If there are no papers then reg NO.. Recorded yes.

With horses its not an issue. If you buy an AQHA mare.. her papers are still from the AQHA. If you buy a breed that has a canadian gov body as well as then the parents registry stands as is but the offspring if born here will be registered through the canadian body.
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  #43  
Old 04-14-2009, 03:11 PM
AGonzalez AGonzalez is offline
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They don't have a Canadian affiliate registry, it's US based alone. That's why I'm confused on the gray area there...they are purebred and registered with a long pedigree...but not part of this pedigree act deal, so would selling them as what they are purebred horses with registration, but they only have US registration...is that considered illegal? It's a rare breed and the registry is small to begin with.

Kind of the same thing with your JRT's I think. They are registered, purebred, but because of that act you can't say "I'm selling you this purebred dog without registration papers because it can't be registered until a year old, etc" would that be illegal? I'm still trying to wrap my mind around it.
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  #44  
Old 04-14-2009, 03:17 PM
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So what breed of horse are we talking about?
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  #45  
Old 04-14-2009, 03:52 PM
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AC,

First we don't say or advertise that the jrts are 'purebred', we say that they are JRTCA/CC reg'd. And we explain what that means, that those registries are legit, they are actually older than the AKC PRTS.
Just because a breed isn't AKC/CKC or APA recognized, doesn't mean the animal isn't a purebred. There are some breeds out there that the mother club and breeders don't want in Kennel Club, therefore they don't seek recogniation. Doesn't mean the dogs aren't purebred or come from a very long line of (often going back over a hundred + years etc).

Most people have never heard of the APA here in Canada..............including those who breed dogs and horses.

The APA hardly enforces their rule of 'purebred' in advertising anyway......if that was the case they would be nailing people that advertise on websites and classifieds all the time, which they don't. I suppose if someone complained they would act.............

There also seems to be some confusion as to what Recording is. It means, that jrts that don't have the proper paperwork to be reg'd or dogs that don't meet the breed standard if Recorded with the club can compete in many of the events held at sanctioned trials. They just can't be entered in the Breeding conformation classes.

This is taken from the JRTCA's site on Recording, hope it makes it a bit clearer.

Recording Requirements
Application. The application simply requires the name of the owner, the name of the dog, the dog's measurements, and parents if known. Rescue dogs are very welcome... if the parents and/or birth date are unknown, your terrier is still eligible for recording.

Photo. One photo is required, which is simply for your dog's identification in their permanent record.

Proof of spay/neuter. This can be in the form of a note from your vet, your Russell Rescue contract, or any other official paperwork that proves your terrier is spayed/neutered. There are no pedigree or other paperwork requirements, no complete vet certification requirement.

Fee. The fee to record a spayed/neutered terrier is only $15, which is the club's minimum cost for the administration of the recording.

Benefits of Recording your Terrier
Recording your terrier offers you and your terrier several benefits. When the JRTCA implements the registration/recording requirement for sanctioned trials, obviously it will give you the continued opportunity to participate in sanctioned trials. However, recording your terrier also offers the following benefits.

Permanent Record. Recording your terrier places a permanent record of your terrier, with photo, in the club's records.

Certificate of Recording. Once recorded, your terrier is issued a very attractive Certificate of Recording.

Certificate Programs. When recorded, your terrier is eligible to participate in the JRTCA's Certificate Programs and to earn certificates in Obedience, Agility, Go-to-Ground, and Natural Hunting. There are several levels of obedience and agility. Earning JRTCA certificates allows your terrier to be eligible for certificate classes at sanctioned trials.

Height Cards. If your terrier enjoys racing or GTG, and may be "borderline," you may acquire an official measurement and height card once recorded.

Please contact the club office for a recording application!

Last edited by adojrts; 04-14-2009 at 04:09 PM.
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  #46  
Old 04-15-2009, 03:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adojrts View Post
Now in recent years, since they have closed the stud books to accepting outcrosses of other breeds this is quickly changing. Many of the same lines are used over and over again resulting in difficulty in outcrossing within the breed. And of course as the breed tighens down and the line breeding increases, the undesired recessive faults are also becoming more of problem in the way of genetic issues i.e PLL and Catracts.
I appologize, this is off topic, but you are talking about the JRT clubs here right Lynn? I've noticed this a lot lately in my possible search for another little bugger. I can honestly say that I'm a little taken back by the increase in line/inbreeding that I am seeing. Can someone remind me of the inbreeding co-effcient that's allowed and how that would work in the future when I consistently see the same dogs in hundreds of pedigrees? Would re-opening the stud book be an option? Didn't some breeders in the US use fells, and registered the 50% whites as JRT's - smart move IMO. Not a fan of the heavy and constant in/line breeding for many reasons, primarily being the increase of health and behavioural issues (seen that first hand).
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  #47  
Old 04-15-2009, 03:10 PM
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AC,
It is exactly as Lynn stated above. I have a non-registered little female JRT. She wasn't registered with any organization when I got her. I choose to "record" her with the JRTCC. I can play in all events at trials, except conformation, and her file is kept with the club. I sent in a picture, had to show proof of spay and received a certificate of recording. They allow a spot for sire and dam linage as well on the certificate. We can do everything a "registered" dog can within the club except breed, and show in conformation (although there are the "suitable to" classes that I believe you can show your recorded or spay/neuter terrier in - is that correct Lynn or Decka?). The only restriction on "recording" to play in trials is the height requirements in certain sanctioned events - lucky we fall into it just nicely - my little 10 3/4"er
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  #48  
Old 04-15-2009, 03:18 PM
AGonzalez AGonzalez is offline
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Thanks Ado, I was trying to get some clarity on it. So the whole APA thing is meant to protect the owner, but it really doesn't do a whole lot...good thing to know.
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  #49  
Old 04-15-2009, 03:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandyb View Post
I appologize, this is off topic, but you are talking about the JRT clubs here right Lynn? I've noticed this a lot lately in my possible search for another little bugger. I can honestly say that I'm a little taken back by the increase in line/inbreeding that I am seeing. Can someone remind me of the inbreeding co-effcient that's allowed and how that would work in the future when I consistently see the same dogs in hundreds of pedigrees? Would re-opening the stud book be an option? Didn't some breeders in the US use fells, and registered the 50% whites as JRT's - smart move IMO. Not a fan of the heavy and constant in/line breeding for many reasons, primarily being the increase of health and behavioural issues (seen that first hand).
Brandy,

The co-efficent is a max of 16%, hope that helps. Btw you need a Breedmate program to determine what the CE is lol.
btw, pm'd you.
Lynn
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