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  #11  
Old 04-09-2009, 11:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackmaskrott View Post
Mer, not to start any kind of fight, but in Canada it is unlawful to sell a dog/puppy as "purebred" if it is not registered with the CKC (Candian Kennel Club), or at the very least, able to be registered with the CKC. This is the "Animal Pedigree Act" that Camp is talking about. There is actually pretty heafty fines if it is found that you are in violation of this Act.
There are other organizations on that list that the APA recognizes for dogs... including the CBCA for BCs..

Quote:
From what I am understanding from Camp's post, anyone selling JRT's in Canada can not sell and/or advertise their dogs/puppies as "purebred" legally, because the JRT breed is not recognized by the CKC, therefore they can not legally claim them to be "purebred" even if they are.
I've always taken it to be if you sell a animal off their list as a purebred without appropriate papers and call it a purebred it's a violation. If you have a breed they don't recognize.. it's not governed by them. There's a lot more breeds than the CKC will likely ever recognize. And a lot more breed clubs that may want anything but that recognition. Not just the jrt people.
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  #12  
Old 04-09-2009, 11:42 PM
AGonzalez AGonzalez is offline
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Thanks MP, you hit the nail on the head with that. I was just curious how it worked, I'm from the US, we don't have that kind of law. I didn't know if there were other governing bodies that counted toward "registration" and that the website hadn't been updated sinec Sept 2008...a lot can happen in 6 months.
Thanks for clarifying.
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Old 04-09-2009, 11:43 PM
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No idea if I'm correct hun. I've just always taken it that way for breeds that aren't listed.
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  #14  
Old 04-09-2009, 11:47 PM
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Originally Posted by ACampbell0304 View Post
.............was under the assumption that the CKC was the only "allowed" registering body by the animal pedigree act, as I could find no other information to indicate otherwise.


So the JRT club you are affiliated with, when you sell puppies with their registration it counts under that act? Just trying to clarify this. I'd love if Ado or Laura would chime in on this as well as it's rather confusing as to how it works.
Lots of groups are recognized by the APA. Breed Associations Incorporated Under The Animal Pedigree Act

However, if you look at the link, you'll notice it states 'redmeat' as part of it....last I checked, no-one eats dog in these here parts....

If you look at Border Collies, they are their own group, outside of the Kennel Club. They are currently hosting their own registry, and are geared more towards the working dogs from what I understand.

When we sell puppies, they have NO papers. JRT's cannot be 'papered' until a minimum of one year of age. Owners are told that if they wish their dog to be papered, they will have to apply at that time. One of the things we personally will do is to help an owner do the paperwork etc when the dog reaches a year if they desire to register or record their dog. The dog is never called or considered 'purebred' either...we simply call them registered or recorded. It's been like that as long as I've dealt with the JRTCC, (approximately 10 years now?) so I don't know if that is a result of the APA or not, no idea.

The way that we look at it, the papers keep track of who is descended from who...but if they can't go out and work the quarry, or do a **** good job at something, why should that dog be bred anyway? I think all of the breeders I know require a dog to have hunted before they will consider breeding it, it's not a rule or requirement, just something that the breeders do. (I'm sure there are exceptions to this, just none that come to mind, or that I know of off the top of my head.)
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Old 04-09-2009, 11:51 PM
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I noticed horses are mentioned under red-meat...Canadians don't eat horse do they? Sorry but that's off topic...

Thanks for answering, it makes sense now. No wonder when it was said "This is Canada not the US" you guys mean it, things are different by far...but I still like your beer!
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  #16  
Old 04-10-2009, 12:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ACampbell0304 View Post
I noticed horses are mentioned under red-meat...Canadians don't eat horse do they? Sorry but that's off topic...

Thanks for answering, it makes sense now. No wonder when it was said "This is Canada not the US" you guys mean it, things are different by far...but I still like your beer!
Horses? Not around here, but there used to be areas that they do eat horse. There may still be, I'm not sure.

My understanding with the APA is that it was designed for livestock, but due to some loopholes and gaps, the wording covers basically all animals. And, as mentioned earlier, not all of them fit into that 'neat little mold' that laws are designed for.

Canadian Beer.....now that should be registered....the higher alcohol contents can be dangerous. I'd have to check, but I think a lot of our 'lite' beers are similar for alcohol content as a lot of the american stuff.

Personally, I'm a rum fan anyway, but as I understand it, the really 'good' beer tends to be European or micro brewed in a lot of cases.
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Old 04-10-2009, 12:51 AM
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Ah the APA, boy did we fight that one years ago when I was on the BOD for the JRTCC and also very involved in the JRTCA.

Basically it boils down to this, the APA governs what is considered to be a 'purebred' in Canada and is the stepping stone to getting a breed recogonized in CKC.
Years ago, the CJRTA wanted the JRT to get into CKC, the same as they had in AKC, but to do that they needed numbers and they need to hold the majority of breeders representing the JRT, which they didn't have. The JRTCC had the majority and we didn't want them to get in.
It was seriously considered, but we wouldn't be able to control what happened with the breed after the fact because although we could write the breed standard it still meant that dogs would be registered just because they came from reg'd parents etc. The other problem was once we got in, the registry had to be opened up and anyone regardless of which club they were from could get on the BOD etc. But our main problem was the JRTCA which is the mother club to the JRTCC and the grandmother club is the JRTGB (U.K), they made it absolutely clear that if we sought the APA for the JRT up here, that they would not honor reciprocity, therefore our members would not be able to have duel reg'd dogs with the JRTCA or compete in their trials and Nationals. Considering that the serious breeders and exhibitors within the JRTCC are also members of the JRTCA to compete at their trials etc, it was a huge problem.
And it isn't a concern to the JRTCA/CC breeders about calling our dogs 'purebred', because we view our breed as a type of terrier with a broad standard. Now that doesn't mean the standard isn't restrict but compared to kennel club it is. In APA/kennel club we would have had to consider splitting the breed into different sizes and coat types i.e wired or mini etc.

And here is the kicker, according to the APA once an animal (horse, dog, pig, etc) has a seven year recorded and offical pedigree it is considered to be a 'purebred'. lol So by those words all the JRTCA/JRTCC/JRTGB reg'd terriers would be 'purebred' because it was dogs that were reg'd with the JRTCA that was the foundation for them getting into the AKC. Which they now call Parsons. As a further note, the JRTCC owned the copyright to the name Parsons in Canada..............because that is what our dogs were known by.....go figure. Now the PRT fanciers would like everyone to believe that our dogs are the mutts and that they are the shorties/puds, which they are not........they are the complete opposite and they are the foundation that is the REAL Jack Russell Terrier and its members are to Preserve, Protect and Work them.
It has been a few years since I have had to know all this stuff and it makes me shudder to remember all the BS over it, all the meetings in person and in converance calls with the David and our lawyers. Good grief and all the excellent members especially the working terriermen and women that left the club because of it in the end, myself included.

The new BOD of the JRTCC is working very hard to bring the club back to even something close to what it was. We use to have a decent club, but the damage is done, many of the working folks wont come back. They are trying to lure me back, guess I am going to judge for them in June, which should be fun to get back into it for a little bit..........and at least give them a chance. We'll see..............
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  #18  
Old 04-10-2009, 12:56 AM
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[QUOTE=Snip;1364003]

It's been like that as long as I've dealt with the JRTCC, (approximately 10 years now?) so I don't know if that is a result of the APA or not, no idea.

QUOTE]

You've been involved with the JRTCC for that long?
Quote:
but if they can't go out and work the quarry, or do a **** good job at something, why should that dog be bred anyway? I think all of the breeders I know require a dog to have hunted before they will consider breeding it, it's not a rule or requirement, just something that the breeders do. (I'm sure there are exceptions to this, just none that come to mind, or that I know of off the top of my head.) Quote


The Open Conformation Division is always larger than the Working Division, even within the JRTCA bc so many DON'T work their dogs. There are very few breeders in either club that demand a dog work before they breed it. Most of them wouldn't know a Bertha or Yoho if it smacked them upside of the head.
If most of the breeders worked their dogs, then there wouldn't be the problems within the club that there is.........the JRTCC has always been very shallow in breeders that actually work their dogs and this is one of the reasons that the club took a wrong turn in the first place because the non workers got control and which is why all the the people who did work left.
I can think of five people still in the JRTCC that actually work their dogs and only one of them lives in Canada!!!!!!! And even then most of them have only gone enough to paper chase.
Mark there is an old saying in the terrier world, It takes more than one time in the working field to call a terrier a working terrier and the same goes for the people that own them.
I just went and looked at the JRTCC breeders on the clubs website of the breeders listed there, ONLY 2 that work their dogs, Gaye is one and Ian & Sandra are the other ones, there are a couple of others that have gone to the field to paper chase but they are NOT working terrier people on any level.

Last edited by adojrts; 04-10-2009 at 01:26 AM.
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  #19  
Old 04-10-2009, 03:15 AM
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Good question and honestly after 10 plus years of studying this breed some of the technical crap about KC I still don't get.. LOL Likely because I never got involved in it if I could avoid it at all....

I actually never considered/ or said my dogs were purebred, but did call them registered and a type, which is what they are... LOL

All of mine were dual registered with JRTCA/CC and I as well as Ado spent an average of 2 weekends a summer traveling and trialing all over the US and Canada for several years, and the political aspect of KC for the Jack/Parson never goes away. There are top breeders whom are rumored to have their dogs quietly registered with the KC stateside and others whom are appalled by it.

I am personally no fond of KC and all it stands for, and love to explain to anyone who wants to listen just how the JRTCA/CC registries work and how your dogs need to prove the meet standard and be vet checked in order to get registered!

One of my Pet Peeves is when people think that JRT= Short Legged Puddin Type Dogs and PRT= Correct "Proper" Terrier... LOL You should see the confusion on their face when I tell them about one of my Favorite JRTs, how he is a Registered JRTCA/CC Champion and his Dad is now and CKC Registered "Parson Russell"... And ask where they think all those Parson Russell's came from??? LOL

Anyhow, it is like 4 am.... and I got up because one of the gang had to pee and I could not get right back to sleep... so forgive me it this rambles, or does not answer your question...

The short answer for me, I never worried about it, because I promoted my dogs as JRTCA/CC Registered JRTS and called them a type. When directly asked if they were purebred I explained what type was and about the JRTCA/CC Registry.

***Yawn*** back to bed now... LOL
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Old 04-10-2009, 03:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adojrts View Post

It's been like that as long as I've dealt with the JRTCC, (approximately 10 years now?) so I don't know if that is a result of the APA or not, no idea.

QUOTE]

You've been involved with the JRTCC for that long?
Quote:
but if they can't go out and work the quarry, or do a **** good job at something, why should that dog be bred anyway? I think all of the breeders I know require a dog to have hunted before they will consider breeding it, it's not a rule or requirement, just something that the breeders do. (I'm sure there are exceptions to this, just none that come to mind, or that I know of off the top of my head.) Quote


The Open Conformation Division is always larger than the Working Division, even within the JRTCA bc so many DON'T work their dogs. There are very few breeders in either club that demand a dog work before they breed it. Most of them wouldn't know a Bertha or Yoho if it smacked them upside of the head.
If most of the breeders worked their dogs, then there wouldn't be the problems within the club that there is.........the JRTCC has always been very shallow in breeders that actually work their dogs and this is one of the reasons that the club took a wrong turn in the first place because the non workers got control and which is why all the the people who did work left.
I can think of five people still in the JRTCC that actually work their dogs and only one of them lives in Canada!!!!!!! And even then most of them have only gone enough to paper chase.
Mark there is an old saying in the terrier world, It takes more than one time in the working field to call a terrier a working terrier and the same goes for the people that own them.
I just went and looked at the JRTCC breeders on the clubs website of the breeders listed there, ONLY 2 that work their dogs, Gaye is one and Ian & Sandra are the other ones, there are a couple of others that have gone to the field to paper chase but they are NOT working terrier people on any level.
See I should have read the thread before replying, I never learned all the intimate details because I just asked Lynn if I had a question... LOL

I became turned off and left the club and ultimately stopped breeding as well after a Nasty GM at Nationals one year, where I watched two of the best working terrier men I know be attacked for their beliefs. One whom I consider the most reputable man whom ever held a spade.... Most of the experience I have working my terriers came at the hands of these two men and I was appalled by what happened that night and have never forgotten it.
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