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Old 04-09-2009, 11:36 PM
AGonzalez AGonzalez is offline
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Default CKC and the JRT question

Ok so I read about Dekka saying none of her dogs were registered with the CKC. So I looked it up on the link she provided, and another one.

Canadian Breeds Recognized Under the Animal Pedigree Act

Breeds list for the Canadian Animal Pedigree Act - Jack Russel not mentioned...ok.

Jack Russell Terrier, Parson Russell Terrier - Canada's Guide to Dogs - Breeds

This site says they are recognized as the Parson Russell Terrier with the CKC...however, they aren't mentioned in the Animal Pedigree Act. This is current as of September 2008.

Breeds and Abbreviations

Not mentioned under "terrier" breeds but is mentioned at the very bottom being a "working" breed as of an effective date of September 1, 2006.

So for all of you JRT folks. How do you sell puppies as "purebred" if they aren't recognized by the Animal Pedigree Act?
I really researched this looking for a cut and dry answer prior to asking on here, but the breed clubs I found don't seem to be covered under the Breed Associations Incorporated by the Animal Pedigree Act that you have in Canada. So, how do you do it?
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Old 04-09-2009, 11:57 PM
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Just because a breed isnt' on some list, doesn't mean they aren't purebred. Most breeds that are recognized have gone to crap compared to their working cousins.

And to post about a long-standing member not breeding purebreds, when people have seen her dogs, is just down-right distasteful.
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Old 04-10-2009, 12:08 AM
AGonzalez AGonzalez is offline
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I didn't say that, I'm asking a simple question. No harm intended and not distasteful.
Where they stated that it is ILLEGAL to sell a dog as purebred under that act without the registration papers, I'd love to know what registration papers count? As far as the link that was given I didn't find the info I'm looking for, so I'm asking.

It was directed to the JRT folks, nobody specifically. The only mention of someone specifically was that they were the person who said it and I want to know how it works, so excuse me for asking a question.

I don't see anywhere that I questioned the "purebred" status of ANYONES dog, you misinterpreted that. I didn't say "Hey LauraLeigh, Ado, Dekka (and anyone else I missed here, forgive me) Your dogs are just mutts" and I would never implicate that.
I asked how you sell a breed that's not listed on the government website under that act as a purebred?
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Old 04-10-2009, 12:11 AM
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Yikes Mer.

I only saw a question being asked, she was referencing a thread that Dekka had mentioned the CKC in. She never said anything about Dekka's dogs not being pure-bred, or anything bad about Dekka at all. She was simply asking a question, and posed it to all JRT folks.

Remind me not to ask questions.
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Old 04-10-2009, 12:20 AM
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The Canadian Animal Pedigree Act has a lot of issues for certain types of animals. In the case of the JRT vs the PRT, because the breed definitions are similar, if either group went to the APA and asked for inclusion, it could create various scenarios.

One could be that the APA group could rule that the two breeds are similar enough (especially looking at the history/origins) that they could force the two registries together, something neither group wants. The issue with that then becomes this...if they decide that it should fall under CKC for registration, the working group (the JRT's) would be upset because there aren't nearly as many venues, nor competitions of the type they enjoy allowed under current CKC rules.

Also, the current JRTCC registration (of which our dogs are a part of) does not allow a dog to be registered until they are one year of age, and they have to apply....registration is only granted to those dogs meeting breed standards. If they fall outside of breed standards for whatever reasons, they can only be registered as a spay/neuter dog, still eligible for most of the competitions (except for certain conformation classes.) The main advantage with this setup is that the dogs that are better suited for breeding (in that they are maintaining breed standard desired traits) are the ones that are papered.

PRT use the same type of registration as KC, if they are born to papered parents, they are automatically papered. The dog could be 2" outside of the standard in height, doesn't matter.

A majority of breeding/working terriers in the JRTCC are also dual registered with the JRTCA, and it's a very similar process for their registration system as ours.

The other advantage to a system like we use with the JRTCC is certain classes. A conformation class that we have is called the Bronze medallion class. In order to enter, the dog must have worked 3 different types of quarry in the field, under the supervision of a judge, they then receive their Bronze Medallion. Once this is earned, they can enter that particular conformation class. The dogs winning this class are known then to be excellent working AND conformation dogs. (Just an interesting sidenote, there is a rule stating dogs with scars or injuries from working in the field are not to be penalized in the placings for ANY classes.)

Since you seem concerned with why NONE of our dogs are registered CKC, the remainder of our dogs are the longhaired whippets (see LWHA) which at this point in time have their own registry. Even though genetically it's been proven the long hair is a recessive gene, they aren't recognized by the breed standard for whippets according to any of the KC's, so they are doing their own registration as well. I'm not positive, but I believe that the LWHA registration covers all dogs in North America, not just Canada or the US.

Last but not least we have Sport, our son's Border Collie. He was a rescue that we adopted, and there is no knowledge of what his breeding is, who his breeders were or anything. Again, since he will be a companion dog, and agility dog for our son, makes no difference, because the events that he will be playing in don't require them anyway.

Answer your question Acamp??
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Old 04-10-2009, 12:23 AM
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Mer, not to start any kind of fight, but in Canada it is unlawful to sell a dog/puppy as "purebred" if it is not registered with the CKC (Candian Kennel Club), or at the very least, able to be registered with the CKC. This is the "Animal Pedigree Act" that Camp is talking about. There is actually pretty heafty fines if it is found that you are in violation of this Act.

From what I am understanding from Camp's post, anyone selling JRT's in Canada can not sell and/or advertise their dogs/puppies as "purebred" legally, because the JRT breed is not recognized by the CKC, therefore they can not legally claim them to be "purebred" even if they are.

I did not take Camp's post as her calling anyone out or putting anyone down. I read it as just an inquiry for information.
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Old 04-10-2009, 12:24 AM
AGonzalez AGonzalez is offline
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Yes it does and doesn't, that's what I was looking for. I wasn't "concerned" why none of your dogs were registered with CKC (I knew about the whippets and read up on that one, couldn't find the info on the JRT) I was asking in general because it confused me. I only used Dekka's comment because it was the first I've heard of that in particular and was under the assumption that the CKC was the only "allowed" registering body by the animal pedigree act, as I could find no other information to indicate otherwise.
So the JRT club you are affiliated with, when you sell puppies with their registration it counts under that act? Just trying to clarify this. I'd love if Ado or Laura would chime in on this as well as it's rather confusing as to how it works.
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Old 04-10-2009, 12:26 AM
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Oh, and I forgot to mention, since myself and a couple other members of the JRTCC were in discussions with David Trus for some time, feel free to ask him. He knows exactly how our club and registration system works, and has a lot of respect for it.


David Trus
Animal Industry Division
Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada
1341 Baseline Road
Tower 5, Floor 2 Ottawa, Ontario K1A 0C5

Thing is, our 'purebred' JRT's aren't sold with papers, they have to EARN them, something many dogs in kennel clubs could never do these days!!
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Old 04-10-2009, 12:27 AM
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The more I learn about the JRTCA/CC, the more I wish more parent registries worked like that!
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Old 04-10-2009, 12:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackmaskrott View Post
Mer, not to start any kind of fight, but in Canada it is unlawful to sell a dog/puppy as "purebred" if it is not registered with the CKC (Candian Kennel Club), or at the very least, able to be registered with the CKC. This is the "Animal Pedigree Act" that Camp is talking about. There is actually pretty heafty fines if it is found that you are in violation of this Act.

From what I am understanding from Camp's post, anyone selling JRT's in Canada can not sell and/or advertise their dogs/puppies as "purebred" legally, because the JRT breed is not recognized by the CKC, therefore they can not legally claim them to be "purebred" even if they are.

I did not take Camp's post as her calling anyone out or putting anyone down. I read it as just an inquiry for information.
As far as I know, none of the JRTCC breeders call their dogs 'purebred' anyway, they simply state the breeding parents are registered with the JRTCC.

Dogs that are spayed or neutered are 'recorded' versus registered, recorded means there is a still a record of the bloodlines etc, but those dogs can never be bred of course. They are eligible for all the same competitions, classes and rewards the registered dogs are.

Technically right now, Parson Russells also cannot be sold as 'purebred' because they also are not listed under the animal pedigree act.

One of the issues with the APA is the fact that it is geared more to livestock then canines and the like. Officially, anyone breeding any papered animal....birds, cats, dogs, etc, could fall under the APA regulations. Unfortunately, as was told to us by the Ministry of Agriculture and Food, there isn't the flexibility in the current law to accommodate some of the things it needs to.
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