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  #11  
Old 04-09-2009, 10:27 AM
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Laurelin Laurelin is offline
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I'm sure Beanie's already given you this site but here you go just in case...

The American Shetland Sheepdog Association

There's also a working sheltie club but neither Beanie or I have no idea what they actually DO. It sounds like a good idea, but there's just no information on their site...
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  #12  
Old 04-09-2009, 10:36 AM
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I'm sorry, LOL. I didn't mean to make things more complicated for you. I'm on my way out the door to work but I'm taking my notebook with me from when I looked for a breeder, I'll type up all the questions I asked and the responses I heard.

It might also help to call a few vets in the area and ask for a recommendation for a sheltie breeder. That also gives you a starting place when you call the breeder, to say "I got a recommendation from such-and-such-breeder and was hoping to talk to you."
If you have ANY contacts in shows or anything at all, regardless of breed, ask them, too. We actually found our breeder through the girlfriend of a friend of my dad... who owns/races/shows whippets, LOL. But this guy was like "Oh, let me ask my girlfriend if she knows anybody!" and voila - she sure did!
Oh yeah, and it's agility season - you could start going to trials and asking around, too. Agility is fun to watch anyway, you would probably have a great time. =>
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  #13  
Old 04-09-2009, 11:38 AM
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Echoing Laurelin that is the hardest part.. finding a breeder who titles in other things *besides* showing. A good breeder friend of mine is a show breeder and although she trains her dogs in agility, it's more so for fun. I had the option to take one of her dogs however they're just so.. unactive. I wanted a agility dog and she would be better going to a companion home.. which is too bad since she was some cute.

Talking to people in the sheltie club bawking at high energy dogs (listening to them tell me I was crazy for liking tollers and others, LOL ).. well thats my image of shelties, while not a border collie they should still be high energy dogs.. not couch potatoes like they are apparently turning into.

I like this one, however doesn't seem to title the females in conformation. Weird.
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  #14  
Old 04-09-2009, 01:00 PM
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Okay, this is what I have written down in my notebook. Most of this pertains just to shelties, but it might be useful for people looking for other breeds as well:

First I have just a list of things you might want to see:
- parents medical records (I didn't ask to see these, FYI - I forgot)
- pedigrees 3-5 generations back
- OFA (hip) & CERF clearance - as I said in the other thread, I also like to see elbows done for shelties, but hips are really the big part
- screening for Von Willebraun's Disease
- thyroid checked

Next, the stuff to ask about/what the breeder should tell you:
- puppies should be sold between 8-12 weeks (I personally like 10-12 weeks for shelties)
- dewclaws removed? when?
- colour, sex, and height of dogs
- cost
- socialization
- how long have you been breeding?
- do you show dogs as well?
- copy of sales contract BEFORE you buy, including exact terms of sale & health guarantee; spay & neuter contracts, limited registration
- diet?


The first time I talked to Auggie's breeder I think we spent at least an hour on the phone. This is what I jotted down while on the phone to her...
She told me the expected due date for a litter she was currently breeding and told me what she usually charges for a pup. She told me about the health guarantee and the screening that she does on her dogs (I have check marks all over the list I posted above as she told me about them.) She required some form of permanent ID such as tattooing or microchipping, and required references from people we know about how we are with dogs - she doesn't normally do home visits but you will find breeders that like to do home visits.
Her dogs are all sables, all in size, and the dogs that were being bred were about 15" tall. Deposits are $500.
I also have written down "boarding is cool with her" and remember her telling me she is perfectly willing to board my dog if I had to go on vacation or something, so I wouldn't have to use a vet.

After we talked on the phone, we went out to her house. We spent at least two hours out there talking to her and her husband. She gave me copies of her contract, she gave me copies of the pedigrees of the dogs she was breeding, she showed me all KINDS of stuff. We talked about agility, which I was sorta considering but wasn't positive about yet. We talked a lot about the different health testing, we talked about the temperaments of the dog and the socialization.
I gave her my deposit that night. We weren't sure if there was going to be room in the litter for me to get a little boy because there were people ahead of me, and it's hard to know what the litter size will be (and most of the other people on the waiting list also wanted little boy dogs.) but I already knew, regardless of when, that I wanted a dog from her.


For me, what is more important than the fact that she had all the right answers for things and was super knowledgeable is the fact that I felt completely comfortable with her and her family. We sat around their kitchen talking dogs for hours on end. When I met the dogs I wasn't just swept away with how cute they were or anything, but I was downright impressed with their temperament.
That is really more valuable than anything... I DEFINITELY think it's important to go out to the breeder's place and meet them, meet their dogs. Talking on the phone is one thing and you can still get a feel for somebody on the phone, but in person you get a better feel for the kind of person someone is, IMO. I really think when you meet the right breeder and meet the right dogs... you just know. It's a gut reaction about how you connect with the person and their dogs, how they connect with you, and their connection with their dogs.


I agree with Laurelin that it's really hard to find a good sheltie breeder. I think it's difficult to find quality breeders in the first place, but when you add on a situation like the sheltie's where what a sheltie SHOULD be is so far from what the general public THINKS a sheltie is (or accepts a sheltie as), it just makes things more complicated.
I have no idea how I was so lucky to be able to find Auggie's breeder - and so lucky to be able to have enough people ahead of me on the waiting list not quite ready for a dog yet, allowing me to end up with the Auggie doggie.
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  #15  
Old 04-09-2009, 03:00 PM
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wcladymacbeth wcladymacbeth is offline
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Thanks everyone

Beanie if I can't find a good one in Ohio I might just be tempted to drive to Illinois for yours, lol. I want an Auggie!

Thanks for all the tips though. I appreciate everyone's help And I hope this info can help someone else, too.
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  #16  
Old 04-09-2009, 06:02 PM
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I agree with everyone's advice. If you are just scanning through websites to find some you want to look at closer check for titles (show or working or both), health screenings (OFA, Cerf, Penhip, OFA is most common, if your breed is prone to something in particular make sure they scan for that. From the breeders I've seen they look like they are prone to Von Willebrand disease). After that I check for number of litters per year. I prefer no more than one but if they are outstanding and have two I wouldn't cross them off the list. Make sure pups live with the family, not outside in a kennel (unless of course someone was looking for a sheep guarding dog who must be raised with the sheep, that is of course not your case). I'd really like it if all breeders would get TT, therapy dog titles or at least CGCs on all their dogs but most don't unfortunately, I would give preference to those who do.

As for the breeder you linked to, they look good for the most part but they have a LOT of dogs. I don't know if they are all owner by them or if some are co-owned but if all those dogs are at their property I might be skeptical.

After that start calling and e-mailing to find out more. Here are some I found that look good. I would look at them yourself and then decide if you think they are good. I have some issues with a few and will tell you what they are. These may not be the greatest breeders on the face of the Earth, I cannot tell by just a website, but it is a good starting place.

Ancient Day Shelties Home of quality Shetland Sheepdogs (some dogs don't have OFA info (though many are too young), "Spice" the one that gave birth recently does not have OFA info but does have CERF and VWD clear, I'd ask why she is not OFA'd (Dad is though). The site itself does not have a whole lot of info about them as breeders so you'd really need to talk to them and visit them)


Home (not a ton of info about the breeder but the dogs look good).

page2 (First thing you'd need to ask about it health screenings, i almost didn't add them because of lack of those on almost all of the dogs but I loved all the things they do, including temperament tests so I added them. You'll need to check on those screenings though!)

Falmist Shelties - HOME (don't appear to check for VWD. i do like that they do some herding though.)


Gypsy Shetland Sheepdogs (missing info on some dogs)


Heartfelt Shelties-Shetland Sheepdogs - Home (my only problem with them is it appears they bred sparkle before all her tests were finished, possible it's just that they didn't update site)


Karastar (not too much in the way of titles but they do show)


Ohio Shelties Breeder (not a ton of info about the breeders, and again not many titles although they do show)

New Page 1 (not a lot of titles but they do show)


I started get kinda tired while looking at them but hopefully I wasn't too sloppy. Remember that this list is in no way a definite "these are good breeders" list, just some to look into. Good luck in your search. I wish i could find more that were really serious about herding, maybe I'll try again later.
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  #17  
Old 04-09-2009, 06:18 PM
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wcladymacbeth wcladymacbeth is offline
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Wow thank you Maxy!! Nice list. I'll definitely have to look into those. I really appreciate you doing research for me
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  #18  
Old 04-09-2009, 06:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxy24 View Post
Karastar (not too much in the way of titles but they do show)

I know a Karastar dog personally (one they sold) - awesome little performance dog with a great temperament and conformation.
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  #19  
Old 04-09-2009, 06:34 PM
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setter-chick setter-chick is offline
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If you just browsing through websites... look for dogs with titles.. Both front and back. look for show picures to. Puppy mills dont do those types of things. Even if the pedigree has CH's it could be a fluke. One of my breeders puppy got sold to a puppy mill (Looong story) and he has a amazing pedigree, and the good kennel name.
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  #20  
Old 04-09-2009, 08:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vanillasugar View Post
This doesn't really apply to you directly, but incase there are lurkers reading too

For us Canadians, there is a magazine called "Dogs In Canada" which puts out an annual catalogue of breeders (the lists are also on the website Dogs in Canada Home). I don't know what the requirements are to be listed in the magazine, but the breeders all seem to be good. It is of course not an exhaustive list, and not the best place to look for sport dogs (they seem to all be show breeders), but it's a good place to start.
I know of at least three people that are listed as breeders in Dogs In Canada.........and they are nothing more than byb's at best and seriously leaning towards being classified as a puppymillers.

The other thing to add to the rest of the advice given.......Very important to see proof of the genetic testing AND also proof that not only the dam and sire have clearances but also THEIR parents/grandparents are also clear, and recently clear not years ago. I want a pedigree full of dogs that don't have issues even in their old age, granted its no guarantee but it sure improves the odds.
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