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  #31  
Old 04-08-2009, 10:03 PM
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LauraLeigh LauraLeigh is offline
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See I personally also hate the idea of Tails and Dews *having* to be done at a vet.... so drag newborn pups out in sub 0 Canadian winter, stress the hec outta Mom and Pups (Just noticed I had said Dad..... LOL), and have a vet do a job often no better and sometimes worse than what an experienced breeder can do.... I have never had a problem in all the pups I have done for myself and fellow breeders, never had a sick pup or stressed out Pup/Mom, never had an infected tail or dew... However I have breeder friends who have gone through almost all of these issues with pups done at a vet clinic...

On top of that, if you do use a vet, you'd better darn well stay and watch if you use a vet to be sure the dock is done where you want it, for JRTs you want some length for a "handle" and I have seen very nice dogs cropped to short... One was a gorgeous bitch belonging to one of the top breeders in North America! The pups had been marked where the dock was to happen and yet they were docked waaaay shorter and this very, very nice Bitch ended up looking unbalanced.

Last edited by LauraLeigh; 04-08-2009 at 10:23 PM.
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  #32  
Old 04-08-2009, 10:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by corgipower View Post
So is it OK for them to bow to the whims and interests of the AR agenda?
It should be left up the vet to choose their stance.

LL why not? I prefer to take mine to the vets. No one looks particularly stressed or upset. I like the bitch to get a bit of a check up at that time anyway. I am sure I could do it.. I am not squeemish in the least and can give needles and stitch/staple when needed. The vets dock where I say.. so Dekka's litter with too short a tails is MY fault not the vets. (The next litter was great)
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  #33  
Old 04-08-2009, 10:22 PM
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Originally Posted by corgipower View Post
So is it OK for them to bow to the whims and interests of the AR agenda?
Or perhaps, here's an idea----they think for themselves and bow to what they believe is right? But that couldn't be true, because we all really know the the goal of all veterinarians is to end pet ownership, liberate animals, thus liberating themselves right out of business, right? Because if there is one thing that veterinarians hate and want to put an end to, boy, it's the livelihood they've invested so much into........

The whole world is not black and white, there is some gray in there somewhere. I'm not sure why every time someone doesn't agree 150% with crop/dock they are somehow just tools of the Animal Rights movement or over-emotional. Seriously.
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  #34  
Old 04-08-2009, 10:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dekka View Post
It should be left up the vet to choose their stance.

LL why not? I prefer to take mine to the vets. No one looks particularly stressed or upset. I like the bitch to get a bit of a check up at that time anyway. I am sure I could do it.. I am not squeemish in the least and can give needles and stitch/staple when needed. The vets dock where I say.. so Dekka's litter with too short a tails is MY fault not the vets. (The next litter was great)
I just see no reason to take a bitch and pups out so soon after whelping, unless it's an emergency, just a Preference and the way I was taught by those who mentored me. And for the reasons I mentioned as well... I am not saying don't go to a vet, just that I would hate to see that be the only option as many, many breeders are totally capable of docking and doing dews themselves. I am not saying vets are a bad option for all, just not the only one... and to be sure they dock where you say
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  #35  
Old 04-08-2009, 10:28 PM
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Originally Posted by sillysally View Post
Or perhaps, here's an idea----they think for themselves and bow to what they believe is right? But that couldn't be true, because we all really know the the goal of all veterinarians is to end pet ownership, liberate animals, thus liberating themselves right out of business, right? Because if there is one thing that veterinarians hate and want to put an end to, boy, it's the livelihood they've invested so much into........
The ARists have a lot of money at their disposal to be able to give generously to the AVMA. In return they would be able to influence the AVMA's position statements.

Much the same way that Hill's gives generously so that the vets are urged to sell Science Diet.
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  #36  
Old 04-08-2009, 10:33 PM
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Vets are people too. I have met vets who think PETA has animal's best interest at heart and that the HSUS is nice.

Just a shocker but the person who writes Fuglyhorseoftheday is a fan of the HSUS. She just won't/can't believe they are as bad as all that.

And ARistas don't have to totally convert people. They just have to convince enough people of a few things. Docking is bad, pitbulls are evil, mandatory s/n laws will help pets.... I have met vets and vet students who believe some crazy things.. They just people after all.

But why can't they be left to make up their own minds and not be pressured by governing bodies?
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  #37  
Old 04-08-2009, 10:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by corgipower View Post
The ARists have a lot of money at their disposal to be able to give generously to the AVMA. In return they would be able to influence the AVMA's position statements.

Much the same way that Hill's gives generously so that the vets are urged to sell Science Diet.
IDK, I'm one of those horrible people that doesn't think that it's necessarily a bad thing that vets sell Science Diet. It's better than what most people are feeding their dogs and many people are unwilling or unable to feed super-premiums. I fed Jack Hill's j/d after he had his surgery until Io found what i felt was a better option.

Out of curiosity, do you have any links/sources/reports/scanned info, etc that you could post showing where funds come from, how they are used, etc from the AVMA? I think that would be interesting to see.
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Sally--8 yr old pit bull mix
Jack--6 yr old Labrador
Sadie & Runt--12 yr old calico DSHs
Pickles & Kiwi--3 yr old white winged parakeets
Yoda--1 yr old Quaker parrot
Solo--12 yr old Senegal parrot
Sheena--Quarter Horse--3/24/86-6/23/11--Rest Easy Sweet Girl~




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  #38  
Old 04-08-2009, 10:42 PM
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Hills science diet (non prescription) isn't really any better than dog chow or ol'roy not sure how its a good thing its being pushed by a health care provider.

That would be like my dr pushing mac n cheese and wieners.....
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  #39  
Old 04-08-2009, 11:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dekka View Post
Vets are people too. I have met vets who think PETA has animal's best interest at heart and that the HSUS is nice.

Just a shocker but the person who writes Fuglyhorseoftheday is a fan of the HSUS. She just won't/can't believe they are as bad as all that.

And ARistas don't have to totally convert people. They just have to convince enough people of a few things. Docking is bad, pitbulls are evil, mandatory s/n laws will help pets.... I have met vets and vet students who believe some crazy things.. They just people after all.

But why can't they be left to make up their own minds and not be pressured by governing bodies?
I don't know if the Fugly woman is a good example of anything. IMHO, there is something seriously wrong with someone who spends all of their free time tearing down people whose beliefs and ideas do not line up with hers. She needs some professional help, as do the minions who follow her to YouTube and post hateful things.

The thing is that vets are deciding, in seemingly large numbers, that they do not want to do the procedures on their own. This statement has been in place for many years, it was just recently revised. From the searching I have been doing, it seems that most vets (the AVMA is run by vets for vets) seem to be in favor of the position. The only reoccurring theme that I see is a concern that if vets do not so them, then owners will find a non-professional, which I agree is a very *big* concern.

And if you want to talk about governing bodies pressure people, lets talk about the breed organizations that oversee traditionally cropped and docked breeds. The choice of whether or not these procedures are done is largely taken away from the dog owner if they want a decent breeder. I have heard people talk about how they would not C/D their dogs but they have no choice if they want to be able to compete. That is no different than what the AVMA is doing--applying pressure to the professionals it represents in order as a means to an end--the ends are just different.
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~Christina--Mom to:
Sally--8 yr old pit bull mix
Jack--6 yr old Labrador
Sadie & Runt--12 yr old calico DSHs
Pickles & Kiwi--3 yr old white winged parakeets
Yoda--1 yr old Quaker parrot
Solo--12 yr old Senegal parrot
Sheena--Quarter Horse--3/24/86-6/23/11--Rest Easy Sweet Girl~




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  #40  
Old 04-08-2009, 11:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dekka View Post
Hills science diet (non prescription) isn't really any better than dog chow or ol'roy not sure how its a good thing its being pushed by a health care provider.

That would be like my dr pushing mac n cheese and wieners.....
Meh. I think that's debatable. Different foods work for different dogs. There are dogs that do horribly on very good foods. Vets can sell whatever they wish as far as I'm concerned.
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~Christina--Mom to:
Sally--8 yr old pit bull mix
Jack--6 yr old Labrador
Sadie & Runt--12 yr old calico DSHs
Pickles & Kiwi--3 yr old white winged parakeets
Yoda--1 yr old Quaker parrot
Solo--12 yr old Senegal parrot
Sheena--Quarter Horse--3/24/86-6/23/11--Rest Easy Sweet Girl~




Labs do it in the lake.


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