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  #1  
Old 07-24-2009, 05:06 AM
ufimych ufimych is offline
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Default Bias and hypocricy of views

There are striking bias and hypocrisy in views established in our society, which most of us comfortably ignore.
1) Inbreeding versus out breeding. Many of us claim that our dogs are like family members and some treat them very seriously like family members. At the same time, we like to watch dog shows and show breeders use inbreeding (incest) to improve their strains for the show purposes. At the same time, we do not approve, for example, incest and close breeding among humans. We prefer out breed ourselves. Inbreeding is detrimental and contradicts basic laws of genetics and especially population genetics. Nevertheless, it remains a cornerstone in show breeding practices.
2) Spay-neuter programs. With a few exceptions, veterinarians and pet loving public are brainwashed by animal rightist ideology and trumpet about benefits of spaying and neutering pets. Why nobody want to spay or neuter humans? Especially now, when human population growth is obviously out of control and threatens the very survival of humankind in not so remote future? Remember about global warming.
I can summarize said above that majority of our beloved pets, so-called "family members", are spayed and neutered family members. More over, too many of them are genetically degenerated by incest breeding "family members". This is unwanted by animals and a savage and cruel surgery. Did you ever met an animal rightist, who spayed and neutered their some of his human family members? I agree that it helps overpopulation control. Nevertheless, it contradicts the very idea of loving dogs like family members. I have never had and never will have a neutered dog or a cat. If I do not want to breed them, I simply isolated them for a certain period, when they are ready. Natural, intact animals, are far more interesting to keep and interact with. If we are saerious about love to animals, why we want to take so much control over their way of life and happiness? Would some of us, being castrated, be perfectly happy? Did anyone do it by his own choice?
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  #2  
Old 07-24-2009, 05:31 AM
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Dogs do not have human morals. Therefore LINEbreeding is not an issue. If done responsibly it isolates desirable traits and cements them. My male is line bred. He is as healthy as a horse.

Spay and neutering is a vastly debated topic on this forum, please search it for our opinions.

In short, dogs are not humans. Mine are still part of my family, but with their own special needs addressed.
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  #3  
Old 07-24-2009, 06:35 AM
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for the most part you are preaching to the choir. I and others on this forum speak out against inbreeding and unnecessary s/n.
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  #4  
Old 07-24-2009, 06:39 AM
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Renee750il Renee750il is offline
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PD and Dekka are right on the money.

Linebreeding is not the same as INbreeding and it is a useful genetic tool, particularly in rare breeds or a breed (like the Doberman) that has become infested with genetically carried issues.

But no, I wouldn't characterize my feelings for my dogs as the same as those toward my familiy. I love my dogs MUCH more
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  #5  
Old 07-24-2009, 08:06 AM
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dobesgalore dobesgalore is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ufimych View Post
There are striking bias and hypocrisy in views established in our society, which most of us comfortably ignore.
1) Inbreeding versus out breeding. Many of us claim that our dogs are like family members and some treat them very seriously like family members. At the same time, we like to watch dog shows and show breeders use inbreeding (incest) to improve their strains for the show purposes. At the same time, we do not approve, for example, incest and close breeding among humans. We prefer out breed ourselves. Inbreeding is detrimental and contradicts basic laws of genetics and especially population genetics. Nevertheless, it remains a cornerstone in show breeding practices.
2) Spay-neuter programs. With a few exceptions, veterinarians and pet loving public are brainwashed by animal rightist ideology and trumpet about benefits of spaying and neutering pets. Why nobody want to spay or neuter humans? Especially now, when human population growth is obviously out of control and threatens the very survival of humankind in not so remote future? Remember about global warming.
I can summarize said above that majority of our beloved pets, so-called "family members", are spayed and neutered family members. More over, too many of them are genetically degenerated by incest breeding "family members". This is unwanted by animals and a savage and cruel surgery. Did you ever met an animal rightist, who spayed and neutered their some of his human family members? I agree that it helps overpopulation control. Nevertheless, it contradicts the very idea of loving dogs like family members. I have never had and never will have a neutered dog or a cat. If I do not want to breed them, I simply isolated them for a certain period, when they are ready. Natural, intact animals, are far more interesting to keep and interact with. If we are saerious about love to animals, why we want to take so much control over their way of life and happiness? Would some of us, being castrated, be perfectly happy? Did anyone do it by his own choice?
I know this comment is not about dogs, because I agree with everything everone else has said. But you wouldn't neuter a tomcat? Have you ever smelled tomcat spray? You can't get get rid of it. And if it lives outside not neuterd the chances of survival of a long life is almost nil. And keep your car windows rolled up. Tom spray in the car.......burn the car. (not really, but you will want to)! All the ferel strays......
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Old 07-24-2009, 08:10 AM
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FoxyWench FoxyWench is offline
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i was spayed...

was it my choice? actually yes, i was given a couple of options but a partial hysterectomy was the best option for my health...

did it change me?
we can never know for sure because i had it done at a very young age, but not to my knowledge, i was bi-polar before hand, still am...and my sex drive actually did the opposite of what theyd throught it would and skyrocketed...

it likely saved my life and DID save me an awefull lot of pain, discomfort and anguish.

now im not one for mandetory spay and neuter for a RESPONSIBLE person, someone who is willing to seperate their dogs during her heat cycle, make sure their intact male is always under control (and not picking up females around the neighborhood)
unfortunatly i dont feel much of the population is actually READY for that kind of added responsibility as is evident by the many daily listings of "accidental litters" "mom got out and got pregnant" "i didnt know my male was old enough" ect (and is even worse with cats)
plus the risk of scilent heats...

however i am ALL for spay/neuter of fully MATURE dogs, let the animal physically mature first, if your going to be breeding breed responsibly ect and then spay/neuter later to prevent the cancers...
most of the risks from a spay/neuter come from pediactric procedures.

human women go through monepause when their body has had enough...
Female dogs DONT...they continue to go through heat cycles their entire life, the eggs become less viable with each cycle past a certain point, why continue to have that girl suffer every 6-12 months, she shoudlnt be bred, shes too old...noone can tell me a heat is "comfortable" at the very least it must be frustrating...

as for inbreeding.

i have no problems with LINE breeding when done correctly, line breeding is slightly different from inbreeding in that the animals are NOT that closely related.

In breeding is breeding using CLOSE relitives

let me preface this with: personally i DONT agree with inbreeding (in any species) while line breeding in the animal kingdom im not too skeeved with (and unlike your statement of the animal doesnt want it...many wild animals will mate insestually, particularly those that tend to travel in family groups...)

in breeding in humans is frowned upon not only due to religious mentality (back in the days when the bible first came out everyone was sleeping with everyone..theres a reason they had to add one of those "dont lie in your mothers bed" types disclaimers)
but due to MEDICAL concerns, inbreeding in dogs and humans CEMENTS certain traits,, Exagerates genetic characteristics...

even in humans however these genetic abnormalities dont occur untill usually 3-4 generations of direct inbreeding in...and humans are naturally flawed in many ways, unfortunatly the traits cemented by inbreeding in a humans case eventually lead to abnomalies, disfigurement, and bother mental and genetic breakdown...

in dogs, too much in or line breeding will do the same, and like in humans it will cement very specific traits in a line...
and like in humans too much too closely will be detrimental causeing issues...
but as a general whole, once in a while to cement a trait is not only safe, but actually common in the natural world.
(its particularly common in lions, hyena, certain species of primates and apes and even wolves and coyotes.)
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  #7  
Old 07-24-2009, 07:15 PM
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lakotasong lakotasong is offline
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Hello, I'm an animal rights activist. I am currently guardian to six dos and six cats, as well as two snakes, a ferret and a beta fish. All of my animals that can be altered, are altered. And they're all living longer, happier lives because of it. I research the appropriate time to spay/neuter each animal and have implemented this decision when I've had the choice (all of my animals are rescues, and some came to me already spayed/neutered). Please try not to make negative generalizations about those of us who are truly putting the welfare of our animals first. Thank you!
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  #8  
Old 07-24-2009, 07:24 PM
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Dekka Dekka is offline
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oh *roll my eyes.... so only by s/n are you 'truely' putting your animals best intersest first...

I am fine if people want to do it (dekka and snip are fixed) but i didn't do it for them... that propaganda is really getting old summit.
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Old 07-24-2009, 08:15 PM
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Truth hurts.
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  #10  
Old 07-24-2009, 08:21 PM
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why should the truth hurt? are you in pain?

That dogs are spayed/neutered for people isnt' painful for me. It annoys me at times but its not painful. That is why Snip and Dekka are fixed..
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